Prey and Linux!

[MamiyaOtaru]

The thing is no one can fix them or improve the ported code because it's closed, if a closed source project gets ported it should be done well or not at all, it's not like we can just disassemble the code and fix what is broken without fracturing the law.

Which is exactly how it is with the Windows binary you'd be running in Wine. If a Linux binary runs fine, I still consider that an improvement over running through a compatibility layer. For me, native > wine. Wine is great, but I'd much prefer to see things ported. It's not the case with Prey, but with something like UT3, say, if a port ever gets released it is bound to run better than how the Windows version runs in wine now.

I'm pretty happy to see Prey ported. I remember threads when it was new asking if there would be a Linux version, since there was one of Doom3. The response was a pretty emphatic no. It seemed a bit of a slap, since the underlying engine had already been ported (though I won't quibble with business decisions, they had their reasons). I'm not sure what has changed, but porting Prey always seemed like relatively low-hanging fruit compared to, say, a directX game, so yay for it finally happening even if it did work well in Wine.

Opposing viewpoint:
Stuff like Unreal Tournament runs better in wine than it does natively in Linux. Want to play UT and use Teamspeak at the same time? As both use OSS natively, unless you have a soundblaster live or other hardware mixing soundcard you have to use the wine versions of each. And for whatever reason on the eee, I can't get UT to run at normal speed with the native client while with wine it works fine. Maybe one can say that Windows (and things that emulate it) don't change as fast as Linux, meaning super old (closed source) games will have a better shot with wine. Dunno.

But I'm still happy to see Prey ported

[Zero]

Originally Posted by MamiyaOtaru

Which is exactly how it is with the Windows binary you'd be running in Wine. If a Linux binary runs fine, I still consider that an improvement over running through a compatibility layer. For me, native > wine. Wine is great, but I'd much prefer to see things ported. It's not the case with Prey, but with something like UT3, say, if a port ever gets released it is bound to run better than how the Windows version runs in wine now.

Umm you can compare with the performance of WINE now, and a future "port" of UT3 that probly has not even been looked at.

I'm pretty happy to see Prey ported. I remember threads when it was new asking if there would be a Linux version, since there was one of Doom3. The response was a pretty emphatic no. It seemed a bit of a slap, since the underlying engine had already been ported (though I won't quibble with business decisions, they had their reasons). I'm not sure what has changed, but porting Prey always seemed like relatively low-hanging fruit compared to, say, a directX game, so yay for it finally happening even if it did work well in Wine.

The problem with "ports" is there compiled against glibc, if glibc changes there is a chance that binary will not work anymore. I can always recompile WINE, so I can always play my games, if there closed source how are you going to recompile them against the new glibc libs? You can't so eventually you will be installing 5-10 versions of glibc, which is a no no! You don't want "dll hell".

Opposing viewpoint:
Stuff like Unreal Tournament runs better in wine than it does natively in Linux. Want to play UT and use Teamspeak at the same time? As both use OSS natively, unless you have a soundblaster live or other hardware mixing soundcard you have to use the wine versions of each. And for whatever reason on the eee, I can't get UT to run at normal speed with the native client while with wine it works fine. Maybe one can say that Windows (and things that emulate it) don't change as fast as Linux, meaning super old (closed source) games will have a better shot with wine. Dunno.

But I'm still happy to see Prey ported

OpenGL + WINE = better then native port, you have access to the editor, mods and an optmized port, generally the win32/64 ports are better optmized, so again, optmized port + linux memory management = better then native port.

[Crosma]

Windows versions are more optimised, but not really in the way you'd think. MSVC tends to produce much more optimised code than GCC. That's what's making your difference, right there. The most recent versions of GCC are supposedly much better in this regard.

Originally Posted by MamiyaOtaru

Stuff like Unreal Tournament runs better in wine than it does natively in Linux.

People are going on about "optimisation" and such, but the Linux version of UT introduced OpenGL support far and away better than the Windows version's Direct3D support. While Epic did make a Windows port of the Linux UT OpenGL driver (and a new version of the Direct3D driver that was based on the OpenGL one) available, it was only as an obscure download on Epic's now-defunct Unreal technology page. The official Linux version easily outperformed the official Windows version. Not sure how it can be suggested otherwise. Although UT is a special case because the Windows version's Direct3D support was crap.

Originally Posted by MamiyaOtaru

Want to play UT and use Teamspeak at the same time? As both use OSS natively, unless you have a soundblaster live...

ALSA's OSS compatibility mode does not use ALSA's settings unless you run a program using the aoss program. If you have software mixing set up in ALSA, the OSS programs will use that if you use aoss. Besides, almost all sound cards support hardware mixing, it's just that OSS does not typically support it (while ALSA does). So, likewise, if you have hardware mixing in ALSA, using aoss will enable it for OSS programs. Either way, allowing you to use UT and Teamspeak at the same time.

Not a lot of people know that. Really, you should be running all OSS programs with aoss.

Originally Posted by MamiyaOtaru

And for whatever reason on the eee, I can't get UT to run at normal speed with the native client while with wine it works fine.

Modern processors actually change their throughput when under load.

The UT speed throttling code just uses the time that it takes to complete an operation to determine how much throttling it should use in game. Unfortunately, because your CPU is not being taxed much, it takes a little longer to complete than it would in game (when your system is under far heavier stress), leading to speed-up. The problem can be solved by running some other crap (the more intensive the better) while UT is loading. Someone wrote a script for doing that here.

Note that the Windows version does have the same bug. It's just that if you're running a lot of guff in the background (like Wine (for example!), or the general crap that most people run in the background on their Windows boxes), the calculated time will be more accurate. One of my Windows-using friends runs UT while UT is running and then kills the existing one when the new one is up.

Originally Posted by Zero

The problem with "ports" is there compiled against glibc, if glibc changes there is a chance that binary will not work anymore.

Potentially, but all of Loki's old-arse games run on modern systems. It's other versions of libraries that tend to be the bigger problem (glibc is fairly stagnant), but if you're releasing a closed-source binary, you should be statically linking most of those (while providing a dynamically linked version of the binary (which no-one should ever use) too, under the terms of the LGPL).

[Zero]

Originally Posted by Crosma

People are going on about "optimisation" and such, but the Linux version of UT introduced OpenGL support far and away better than the Windows version's Direct3D support. While Epic did make a Windows port of the Linux UT OpenGL driver (and a new version of the Direct3D driver that was based on the OpenGL one) available, it was only as an obscure download on Epic's now-defunct Unreal technology page. The official Linux version easily outperformed the official Windows version. Not sure how it can be suggested otherwise. Although UT is a special case because the Windows version's Direct3D support was crap.

The problem is UT's real renderer was Glide, it was far superior to the OpenGL and the D3D renderer, Glide back then was amazing for UT it's better then todays OpenGL support, even the newer renderer. UT was clearly targeted at Voodoo3 - 5 users.

[Zero]

Noo, you got it all wrong, I run all th closed source ones in WINE unless preformence is better with the native port, I use the best tool for the job. I how ever do heavily support open source, but if you aren't going to do it right then there is no point in doing it.

[Dark God Tchernobog]

I would have thought that Icculus porting Prey would have deserved a mention on the 3D Realms index. I only found out because I was browsing TuxGames one day...

I might actually play Prey now, if it was not ported I would just shrug and go back to playing Doom 3...

While we there is a discussion about WINE, the only game I had ever run perfectly was Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project. Because of that, I try to use the native ports.

[Slacker]

The retail client is out! Read more about it here.

[Joe Siegler]

Those of you who use Linux as your client now have a reason to run out and buy a copy of Prey, if you don't already have one. There is finally a client for the retail version of Prey available! It was released this past Sunday over at icculus.org.

While 3D Realms or 2K Games do not support it, there is a Linux client available. It does require that you buy the full game, either the 3 CD set, the DVD Collector's Edition, or a copy downloaded via Steam. Click here to get a listing of the places you can buy the the game.

The full single player game is supported and Ryan at Icculus says that network play is also supported cross-platform with the original PC version.

So if you're a fan of Linux, you have a new game to play - go check it out!

[bobthefish]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

Those of you who use Linux as your client now have a reason to run out and buy a copy of Prey, if you don't already have one. There is finally a client for the retail version of Prey available! It was released this past Sunday over at icculus.org.

While 3D Realms or 2K Games do not support it, there is a Linux client available. It does require that you buy the full game, either the 3 CD set, the DVD Collector's Edition, or a copy downloaded via Steam. Click here to get a listing of the places you can buy the the game.

The full single player game is supported and Ryan at Icculus says that network play is also supported cross-platform with the original PC version.

So if you're a fan of Linux, you have a new game to play - go check it out!

wow, thanks for pointing this out
but uh, u can get it to work with the steam version!?
cause it says u need a serial #, which steam does not give you.

[Joe Siegler]

Ryan's page says it will. You need to bug him about it, 3DR has had zero to do with this.

[bobthefish]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

Ryan's page says it will. You need to bug him about it, 3DR has had zero to do with this.

will do.

[IceColdDuke]

How did he get access to the idTech4 source code?

[Kristian Joensen]

I guess through the license HH/3DR(Technically 2K I believe) have ? I mean it is a normal practice for dev studios, including dev studios using licensed technology, to use various contractors, including programmers. I guess from the point view of the license they are seen as an extension of the studio ?

Edit:

I guess it would be pretty stupid for companies like id to demand that their engine licensees don't use any contractors.

[sverrehu]

For the record: Since there's no boxed Linux version, I ordered the Windows version today, after playing the Linux demo ('twas great).

Hint: If you had ported the game while it was still fresh, you could have charged me five times more than what I had to pay today. I really hope you keep that in mind when you release DNF.

Sverre - GNU/Linux-only user since the mid nineties.

[Kristian Joensen]

Uhh, he wasn't claiming that. This is Prey client for Linux, hence "Linux client". In other words the "Linux client of Prey".

[peoplessi]

Originally Posted by tommy-vercetti

Quickly! Cancel that order!!

Dont order a windows flavor of a game to play it on linux. Order the linux flavor instead:

http://www.tuxgames.com/details.cgi?&gameref=150

Support linux gaming!

Availability Expected 05 Jan 2009 (Unconfirmed Release Date) - so yeaaah, maybe he should donate to the group instead

[vorticon]

This is great news. I played a bit of Prey in wine but it never ran quite as well as it did in windows. It will be nice to be able to play it natively now

[YeOK]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

Those of you who use Linux as your client now have a reason to run out and buy a copy of Prey, if you don't already have one. There is finally a client for the retail version of Prey available! It was released this past Sunday over at icculus.org.

While 3D Realms or 2K Games do not support it, there is a Linux client available. It does require that you buy the full game, either the 3 CD set, the DVD Collector's Edition, or a copy downloaded via Steam. Click here to get a listing of the places you can buy the the game.

The full single player game is supported and Ryan at Icculus says that network play is also supported cross-platform with the original PC version.

So if you're a fan of Linux, you have a new game to play - go check it out!

Checked out, my copy of Prey is ordered and in the post. I just hope DnF is ported!

[Dark God Tchernobog]

I have been playing Prey port for the last month or so, and it is rather good. Better than the Doom3 one in some ways because it uses Free Software Rendering libraries. Shame my computer is so underpowered though, have to crank down the graphics down so low you cant really appreciate them.

Anyway, I am stuck on the final level of Prey. I am at the area where you must weld the bolts of energy emerging from a giant sphere. I got most of them done, But I cant for the life of me get the two remaining bolts in the back. Is there some sort of trick to this?

[CameO73]

Originally Posted by Dark God Tchernobog

Anyway, I am stuck on the final level of Prey. I am at the area where you must weld the bolts of energy emerging from a giant sphere. I got most of them done, But I cant for the life of me get the two remaining bolts in the back. Is there some sort of trick to this?

Should be pretty easy. Remember you can go up/down and left/right!

Sometimes it's better to wait for the bolts to go your way (just wait around the center of the sphere) than to chase them.

Take a look at this gameplay movie to see how it can be done.

[Dark God Tchernobog]

Originally Posted by tommy-vercetti

So, have you been able to connect to online servers with the native linux port?

Sorry, I dont play games online. Dont have a good enough Internet connection.