Thoughts on the portfolio video

[Kristian Joensen]

Well the demo reel certainly served its purpose, as Bryan Brewer is at id now.

[Psyrgery]

My thoughts are the portfolio video shows what could've been the most entertaining goty, and not some great-in-graphics-but-generic-as-hell goddamned shooter.

It made me want to play it as hell over and over and over, I didn't ever notice the bugs or glitches, the feel of the game was amazing, even if it looked outdated.

I'll always say it's been a shame we won't be ever able to play this baby, and the incoming handheld Duke games can rot to hell.

That's my point.

[wieder]

Originally Posted by StrikerMan780

Ugh, I imagine the reason for the Low framerate shadows and low texture quality is because it was probably running on a Debug Mode, with texture quality toned down and whatnot. If the game has a console, maybe some CVars were set to have the shadows update less and whatnot....

I'm almost certain that's not the case.

[Lethe]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

I must say this I never thought any footage from any game would ever remotely approach the E3 2001 trailer but the demo reel crapped all over it, easily.

After reading this, I don't believe you can be objective at all.

[Psyrgery]

Originally Posted by Lethe

After reading this, I don't believe you can be objective at all.

Why not? So, if you preffer the demo reel against the E3 '01 footage, then he's not being objective?

Bullshit.

[Lethe]

Originally Posted by Psyrgery

Why not? So, if you preffer the demo reel against the E3 '01 footage, then he's not being objective?

Bullshit.

I just can't believe someone could really believe that demo reel crapped all over E3 '01 footage. That is damn weird.

Also, are you sure you understood me correctly? Who said that I prefer demo reel against anything?

[Kristian Joensen]

"I just can't believe someone could really believe that demo reel crapped all over E3 '01 footage. That is damn weird."

Well I DO, specifically on account of the FBA. Believe it or not but people actually DO disagree with you and that doesn't mean they aren't "objective".

[alessnet]

Originally Posted by wieder

I'm almost certain that's not the case.

So, is there an actual explanation for this, or are you thinking that the game is really looking so bad ?

[wieder]

Originally Posted by alessnet

So, is there an actual explanation for this, or are you thinking that the game is really looking so bad ?

I don't think it looks bad... just think it has quirks.

I think the specular in the caves is intentional (it's supposed to be wet, and perhaps looks better at full rez but I agree with the above comments about it not looking very good personally... it's very shellack looking).

The shadows are probably lower framerate for performance reasons, and in action probably mostly invisible when they are on the flat ground parallel to your view... and really just pop out when on walls that are perpendicular to your view (so perhaps there is a setting to speed them up in the places they look bad but leave them slower for the average cases).

The texture resolution in the shrunken parts are probably just using normal assets (any game will look lower rez if you just take the normal assets and shrink the player) and perhaps they eventually intended on swapping them out for those parts specifically.

The lighting feeling artificial is probably just due to being a 100% realtime lighting with no radiosity, and some odd choices for sun colors.

Don't have any comments on animations. Those are very subjective and he is clearly a capable animator and you never know when a compliment or criticism is due to the animator or the direction given.

I think the FBA takes too long and would be annoying in real play... but won't know without actually playing it. Depends on how often it happens, the context where it happens, etc.

Just all my opinions and speculations... no more or less valid than people who love it as is.

And it goes without saying that I like the vast majority of the concepts we see in there.

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by wieder

I think the FBA takes too long and would be annoying in real play... but won't know without actually playing it. Depends on how often it happens, the context where it happens, etc.

So I take it FBA had yet to be implemented when you left?

[alessnet]

Originally Posted by crunchy superman

So I take it FBA had yet to be implemented when you left?

Perhaps, a lot was already implemented when he left ;-)

[Psyrgery]

Originally Posted by alessnet

Perhaps, a lot was already implemented when he left ;-)

Are you sure? Because if you get to see the first in-game footage from the first Jace Hall Episode, you'll see the FBA was utter crap at the moment.

Duke's leg gets through his arms and weapon, it's a whole lot of a clipping mess, so I wouldn't count on it.

[wieder]

Originally Posted by Psyrgery

Are you sure? Because if you get to see the first in-game footage from the first Jace Hall Episode, you'll see the FBA was utter crap at the moment.

Duke's leg gets through his arms and weapon, it's a whole lot of a clipping mess, so I wouldn't count on it.

DNF has generally been quite ahead of the rest of the industry on things like this and other gameplay/"cool factor" items for as long as I can remember.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the issues you cited were still there to a certain degree.

Edit: I also wouldn't be surprised if they had been fixed since the Jace Hall show either.

[Tualmasok]

I think that Mars is crap cos I have mostly seen poor quality pictures of it. The high quality pictures I have seen of Mars still make me think the red planet is crap, as I didn't see things there that I expected. The things I saw in the pictures of Mars that I did like don't count, as they fell below my expectations.

Mars sucks.

[wieder]

Edit: Ne'er mind.

[nels]

Originally Posted by sridirelms

@ SplatterHappy:
Sounded like a joke to me, but WoodenSword's posting sounds like it's true... hmm well, I don't know

http://www.duke4.net/news.php?extend.270.2

http://www.duke4.net/news.php?extend.272.2

[jaimie10]

Thought it looked Ok, nothing special however. There are a lot of good games out there with superior grpahics and gameplay. And Duke with his huge muscles and blond flat top, looks more like a gay icon than someone who runs around killing bad guys.

"gonna go get me some alien ass"

[Shadow-Con]

In my opinion, I don't think the portfolio video should be as shocking news. It was a good video and the 'wobbling' was imitating as if you were actually that person, actually moving your head, and actually jumping off of shit.

Besides that, does anyone know if those leaked plots are legit... because if they are, I wonder what GB would comment on it being leaked, among other things..

[TonyPessimist]

Originally Posted by jaimie10

And Duke with his huge muscles and blond flat top, looks more like a gay icon than someone who runs around killing bad guys.

that's so true

[Alhexx]

In my opinion, too many people are misinterpreting this demo-reel as a game trailer. Keep in mind that this video was meant to demonstrate an animator's skills and not a game engine's capabilities. So because of this, I'm pretty certain that the game engine is capable of much more than we see in this video.

As for the original thread's question:
Although I'm not an animation expect, the animations shown in the demo-reel look awesome to me. Acually, a good friend of mine is a lead animator at a small german company, which, however, is active in the TV commercial business rather than game development. But I still might show the demo-reel to him and ask him for a professional's opinion.

Originally Posted by wieder

I was put off by the shadow's having a lower framerate than the rest of the scene. You can really see it in the scene where the pigcops are climbing over the walls and then moving to the house. You can clearly see them jumping and stuttering, and once you've seen it you can't unsee it.

Keeping in mind that realtime shadow calculation is one of the most CPU/GPU expensive effects that a graphics engine has to manage, I think that lowering the framerate is a pretty smart idea to improve performance on "slower" computers. The alternative, which offered by most current games, is to completely disable shadow calculation.

I'm also sure that the engine has an option to also render shadows at full framerate...

[sridirelms]

Many guys here say that "it's not a game trailer, it's just an animation demo". But the things I actually criticized the most, were in fact animations. I just wanted to make that clear, and I also think that the graphics are "okay", it were mostly the animations that turned me off.

And one thing about the 2001 vs. demo reel thing: Of course, technically, the 2001 trailer is behind, because it's older. BUT! it looked great for its time. The animations, graphics, and so on, were really cool for 2001. The demo reel instead doesn't really reflect today's standards, it's a bit behind, and so I don't think it's wrong if someone says that he thinks DNF feels better in the 2001 version.

And regarding FBA: yes, it tries to imitate "being a real person", but it fails doing so, because it doesn't look right (in reality, FBA is something entirely different, because you have a huge FoV and your eyes are directly in your head. In a game, you just have your monitor which is at least half a meter away from you, and the FoV is also much narrower. That's the reason why FBA won't work, at least not in that way. I don't think it's a good idea to leave that stuff inside the game, it just doesn't look right, doesn't feel right, and it's completely unnecessary in my opinion.

[Tyler23]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

Well the demo reel certainly served its purpose, as Bryan Brewer is at id now.

Sorry this get a little bit offtopic, but Bryan Brewer is working at id? Nice! Since when? And on which project is he working? Do you have a source?

[lordlonelobo]

Originally Posted by sridirelms

Many guys here say that "it's not a game trailer, it's just an animation demo". But the things I actually criticized the most, were in fact animations. I just wanted to make that clear, and I also think that the graphics are "okay", it were mostly the animations that turned me off.

And one thing about the 2001 vs. demo reel thing: Of course, technically, the 2001 trailer is behind, because it's older. BUT! it looked great for its time. The animations, graphics, and so on, were really cool for 2001. The demo reel instead doesn't really reflect today's standards, it's a bit behind, and so I don't think it's wrong if someone says that he thinks DNF feels better in the 2001 version.

And regarding FBA: yes, it tries to imitate "being a real person", but it fails doing so, because it doesn't look right (in reality, FBA is something entirely different, because you have a huge FoV and your eyes are directly in your head. In a game, you just have your monitor which is at least half a meter away from you, and the FoV is also much narrower. That's the reason why FBA won't work, at least not in that way. I don't think it's a good idea to leave that stuff inside the game, it just doesn't look right, doesn't feel right, and it's completely unnecessary in my opinion.

Mirror's Edge would like to have a word with you.

Anyway, I like FBA, my monitor is probably less than half a meter away, but I think the premise is pretty cool. I loved it in Crysis.

[sridirelms]

I haven't played Mirror's Edge, but from what I've seen in the videos, the FBA in there was much better, because it wasn't overdone. It's more like an "accent", it was less shaky, it didn't make you sick. It also looks unrealistic, like in DNF, but it's far more acceptable, at least for me.

[lordlonelobo]

Originally Posted by sridirelms

I haven't played Mirror's Edge, but from what I've seen in the videos, the FBA in there was much better, because it wasn't overdone. It's more like an "accent", it was less shaky, it didn't make you sick. It also looks unrealistic, like in DNF, but it's far more acceptable, at least for me.

Seriously? I didn't "get sick" over the FBA in Duke Nukem. And the FBA in Mirror's Edge isn't an "Accent", it's a crucial part of the game. You see your hands grabbing edges, the screen moves as though you're actually running, etc.

I don't see what you're talking about.

[sridirelms]

Getting sick is a bit exaggerated. But from the Mirror's Edge video and the DNF video, fundamental differences can be seen. In Mirror's Edge, it seemed pretty moderate (yet crucial, that's not mutually exclusive), but in DNF, it just seemed unnecessary and way overdone. As if Duke had found his happiness in alcoholism after being absent for 12 years...