So what do Native Americans think of Prey.

[Geronimo]

On a side note...

As I mentioned I spent part of my youth in a Native township (Faust, Alberta). We didn't have much in the way of modern toys. Certainly no video games. Yet we weren't bored, we didn't feel like we were missing out in any fun. We all played together, tromped around in the woods and the playgrounds. I bring this up because I don't really feel modern technology has really enhanced life for us. I think modern socities have become so accostom to all the gadjets and what not that they can't imagine happiness without them. Well I know I was happy as a kid without all that stuff and I think there is something to be said with living a simplier life in harmony with nature.

Having said that I'm so glad my graphic card can handle Prey in high graphics mode at a decent framerate .

[Nessus]

Originally Posted by WVa Cherokee

To be honest, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but I do think it may be the Christian mentality that may be a large reason for lack of respect for the environment.

That would make sense, The Europeans themselves were a nature worshipping group of tribes, what today we call the pagans. When Constantine declared Christianity the official religion in 325, Rome went about slaying and enslaving all who tried to hold on to to the old ways. That's almost entirely lost to Modern Western culture these days, replaced by a set of strange and contradictory fairy tales. You can see the old ways creeping through in how Christianity is practiced with saints taking the place of our old polytheistic impulses but Europeans will be spiritually lost as long as Christianity dominates, only a religion based on the natural world can restore the healthy impulses.

[WVa Cherokee]

You are right. Some tribes still have no power lines over their towns. They say they interfere with their ceremonial grounds. So in some areas, all houses have their own individual solar panels. I believe the Comanche tribe (I could be mistaken) is actively looking into wind power. Yes these technologies have a lower impact, but in order for us to discover them, we had to develop the lesser, "crude" technologies that have put us in the situation that we are in now. What is truly sad is that one of the main reasons why these more environmentally friendly technologies haven't really taken is economics . People/corporations often would rather make quick money now rather than invest in the future.

you guys are great, i am a design consultant for permanent agriculture or "permaculture" it is about breaking down everything to its last posible useage. setting up sustainable human enviroments and the study of plants and how certain ones benifit from eachother. like finding natural enemies to pest plants such as mexican daisies keep the cooch grass at bay. or marygolds help tomatoes grow by attracting the insects to them rather then the tomatoes. so to listen to your opions are awwsumm. i cant comment as much as i would like to at the moment as i have guests but you are right about getting back to the earth. we are earthlings with a awwsumm task of learning. it is when one thinks they know everything greed sets in. i believe that thier will be an event that will unite all of mankind someday. something not of this world but yet not uncommon to our universe. thank you for you words, i hold them close and feel what you feel must be done. that is ecept the great spirit of creation and expand our limits of knowledge for the fullfillment of world peace. anyone can hurt someone but to be a healer is an invite to the goodness of our great father. again thank you and may peace be you company.

[Mongorian]

This thread...is actually really good. Some of you guys are real smart cookies. I've had fun reading this entire thing.

[marty56]

Originally Posted by WVa Cherokee

To be honest, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but I do think it may be the Christian mentality that may be a large reason for lack of respect for the environment. Where various tribal peoples feel that they are a part of nature, Christians believe they are in charge of nature, must control it, etc..

The Bible teaches that everything comes from God and if you are a Christian, salvation comes through through Jesus.

I wont argue with you that people dont walk the walk for the talk they talk.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say the Christians believe they are in charge of anything other than man is a fallen creature and it is only through the blood of Jesus that we can we can find redemption. Christans must belive that everything they have is through God.

You should read the Bible.

[Nashoba]

Originally Posted by marty56

The Bible teaches that everything comes from God and if you are a Christian, salvation comes through through Jesus.

I wont argue with you that people dont walk the walk for the talk they talk.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say the Christians believe they are in charge of anything other than man is a fallen creature and it is only through the blood of Jesus that we can we can find redemption. Christans must belive that everything they have is through God.

You should read the Bible.

You might want to go back and read some more of what your bible teaches you. One of the primary lessons taught in Sunday school is abou the creation :
Genesis 1:

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

This is what was WVa refered to....and it is a veiwpoint a lot of Christians I have met use to justify attitudes toward the environment.

I'm not Christian anymore, but I used to be a Baptist Preacher. What was stated above is just one of the many reasons I don't believe in the Bible or follow that faith anymore.

Nothing wrong with those who do, but this as just my choice. But if your going to follow a faith and tell others they should read the bible...make sure you have first

[marty56]

Originally Posted by Nashoba

...

I know what you are trying to do and it wont work.

Everything we own comes from God and a Jesus teached stewardship of what God has given us is very important.

[SuicideRUN]

Originally Posted by marty56

I know what you are trying to do and it wont work.

Everything we own comes from God and a Jesus teached stewardship of what God has given us is very important.

That is your belief, not mine. To me there is no christian god. I do believe in an afterlife. I read an interesting book called Echoes of the Soul. It's by a woman who died and was brought back. She explains the afterlife is like a series of levels you have to be ready for before you may go on. And that every religion is right and wrong at the same time.

Level one is basiclly whatever you believe the afterlife is. There are beings there, lets just call them angels, that teach you that this is just a transition. And when you are ready to accepts the truth you pass to the next level of consciousness. The final level is you become one with god. But while in the other levels you can return to Earth anytime and start a new life. You know everything about the life you will have. The angels say the meaning of life is knowledge. You live on Earth to experience and learn. In the next life being rich or powerful doesn't mean anything. You want to learn as much as you can. So you might return to a person who has cancer so you can experience what it is like to live with this disease. So basiclly this life you chose for yourself, everything that has and will happen was designed by you. It even talks about suicide, there is no punishment for that. She explains that those who do commit suicide will always feel that they cheated themself out of the experiences they wanted. That life for them will always feel undone.

[Laz]

Originally Posted by Mongorian

This thread...is actually really good. Some of you guys are real smart cookies. I've had fun reading this entire thing.

Yes, it is. Like I mentioned earlier, I picked up some information I wouldn't have normally picked up thanks to this thread. Or maybe I said that in the other thread. Anyway, it's cool to see that other people appreciate these guys replies.

[Nashoba]

Originally Posted by marty56

I know what you are trying to do and it wont work.

Everything we own comes from God and a Jesus teached stewardship of what God has given us is very important.

LOL!!!

I wasn't "trying" to do anything. I believe each person must find their own path and make their own peace with faith.

I could care less whether you believe in Jehovah, Jesus, Allah, a multitude of gods, or none, or even if you worship the great flying spaghetti monster.....

My only point was that if you follow a faith....know what it teaches before you try to correct someone else. You said nowhere in the Bible did it say man was in charge of the earth...I was just showing you chapter and verse where it is said.

It makes no difference to me one way or the other...but I will tell you....that if you are like a lot of Christians who want to "save souls" you better damn well know your material....because someone out there will call you on it if you don't. Don't assume that because someone doesn't follow your chosen faith, that they don't know your faith.

My personal beliefs are that the Creator wrote down everything in the life, rocks and sky around us, and Man wrote a book....I prefer the Creator's story...but again that is my belief...and I don't care if others follow it or any other religion....we each have to find our own way.

Oh and just because I'm feeling a bit cheeky and mischievous.....the past tense of teach is taught not teached (sorry, my wife is an English major, I couldn't resist.)

[SuicideRUN]

And Practice what you preach. That right there is one of the biggest problems with christians today. Say one thing and do another.

[marty56]

Despite what is anyone says in this forum here, it is not possible to really know what it is to be a Christian until you accept Jesus into your heart. You can read the Bible from cover to cover and unless you accept Jesus, its just a book.

No real Christian would ever admit that they are the master of the world and are free to do what they want with it.

Yes there are many fake Christians and yes Moslems and Jews and every body else.

For a better prospective from someone who really does try to practice what they preach, check out.

http://www.connectiononline.org/

[garland81]

Wow. where was I the last 1 and a 1/2 days? lol. My comp is now up to par to manhandle Prey and will be getting it in 16 hours.

IN THIS TOPIC: THE HEALING CIRCLE

The slow wither of the native tribes saddens me too. When I was young, I used to cheer for the cowboys until my brother pointed out I was an indian. That shocked me. My dad taught me pow wow songs when I was 10 but I always felt it burdensome.. he didn't really teach me why the significance of our own culture and I never thought to ask. I never really understood what it meant to be native.

That is until I started having life issues of a more spirit affliction. I was pretty much an outcast not because of the skin color. So I spent all that time by myself watching the world revolve around me.. so I had my stuff going on in my life, bad event after bad event, and one thing my dad said to me was to listen to their words of whom I was arguing with and you'll see mistakes in them. That started me on this journey for knowledge.

I started reading books for "mental tools" I could use to fight off these diseases of the mind.. excerpts from R.A. Salvatore, Taoism teachings (chinese philosophy :P), which helped me repel all these hateful words flying at me. One thing that always bothered me is when you outcast people as "the enemy", it felt too divisionary for me. Another thing all these books didn't teach is what you do when you did something you regret.. you become the sinner and sinners are hated by default and could never obtain atonement. I felt that was wrong, because I knew people who regretted terrible deeds and were good people at heart.

So came the road of the native teachings that my mother taught me. She introduced me to this absolutely new world of the healing circle that was from natives themselves which utterly shocked me.

For those who don't know, The Healing Circle was the native's form of justice. Rupert Ross called it "Justice as Healing" which is directly opposite of the white person's "Justice as Punishment" court and judicial system.

The mentality behind it was, "in Justice as Punishment", if you did something wrong, you get punished.. meaning.. it prompts one to lie in order to avoid a bad end result, weither they are guilty or not. If the courts proved you guilty, you go to jail and serve your time. That would be that. It gave no consideration of how the victim would recover or if this criminal would commit a crime again.

The "Justice as Healing" prompts one to speak the truth by offering no punishment as an end result. Yes, you maybe thinking one gets away with it if that happened.. but you gotta be thinking terms of the pre-settler natives, they didn't have jail cells or prisons nor laws for that matter.. and since their tribes weren't exactly big.. they needed everyone's skills to help each other survive a harsh land. So they all sat and talked these problems out.. and no magnitude of sin was far outstanding of the power of the healing circle.

Most of the Healing Circles worked because of the native languages. When you talk in native, like Ojibway, you can feel their words that's so personal that it feels you are talking directly to their spirit.. and the language itself has (coined by Rupert Ross) this Einsteinian way of thinking. So when the victim talked, all their words were felt that not even the crime comitter can escape. All that pain and torment festers into the conscience of that criminal so much it forces him to realize the folly he has done and how it affected the victim.

Today, the healing circle has a far more complex method of process. Upon crime commited the process is normal, criminal gets arrested, victim gives a statement but.. whomever is the first the hear the ENTIRE story would be the one responsible to tell everyone the same exact thorough non-warped story, because rumors twist and warp the truth like a mad man. The criminal and victim would both be asked to be admitted to the healing circle and if the judges approved, it would be so.

Victims would go to counselling for whatever crime was done to them to seek help and healing and prepare them to face the accused, while criminals will spend some time in jail for a bit until he/she too goes to counselling programs (alcoholism, abuse, drug addiction, etc.) Then, the whole family and friends of both the victim and accused would sit in a circle with police officers, judges, lawyers, psychologists, etc to talk about the event.. and each talked their heart out of what they felt and how it affected them.

Everything they said was uninterrupted and as long as they wanted and they all analyzed how this crime came to be. Not only did they analyze the why this crime happened, they analyzed the criminal themselves.. going through the criminal's entire life of all those little things that contributed to his behavior and flushed out all those inner personal demons (every last one of them) until all his inner most deepest pains were exposed into the open.

There's alot of crying, alot of pain, hate, inner torment involved but in the end of this long process actual healing has been gained and both the victim and criminal make full recoveries.

The mentality behind it is.. "an angry person is a barrel of pain ignited in flames, but if you drained the fuel that feeds the fire there wouldn't be anything left to ignite." and that's what the healing circle does. It defuses walking time bombs entirely.

When I learned this, I was shocked... I was opened into an entirely new world where there was this greater understanding beyond anything I've ever imagined. I went through this process with my family and it works. People can't heal by themselves.

The rate of the healing circle's success was 99/100. 100 criminals. Only 5 reoffended. Out of those 5, only 1 remained a true criminal. That is only if the circle itself isn't corrupted. Yes there are those who abuse this circle to get off easily and escape wrong doings (nothing's perfect).

Since then, I've been truly devoted to my own heritage. This is why alot of the natives who know of their own heritage, hold onto it with all their might. Of all the stuff I learned, these natives who came before me were incredible wise people, which is why I am very honored to be apart of this culture.

And it is also why it saddens me that all these teachings like this are slowly withering away.

Well, that's all for now.

ENJOY PREY EVERYONE!!

[Nashoba]

Beautifully said Garland.

[garland81]

One more thing to add:

In the rarest of cases when the healing circle did not work or a native in the older days refused to enter it. They would either shun the person or banish them from the village.

When they shun someone, nobody in the tribe talks to the criminal and it may seem no big deal at first until time passes by when you want to hear words or people talking to you. Nobody would treat you with respect. Nobody would care if you ate or starved. You were completely shut out, until you gave in and confessed.. then the healing circle would commence.

For those shunned or refused entirely, banishment was a last resort and rarely did it happen.

That's all for now

PS: Ty Mr. Nashoba.

[beachsurfside]

my dad is 75% native american ...navahoe or something..
he loves duke nukem...

and you guys that are typing alot...
who really gives a sh*t...
you need to take your head's out of your ass's .
stop talkin about racism and queer stuff like that
we are all human and the reason i can have sex with a black girl and make a child is because we are no differnt than one another. We look differnt because we adapted and evolved differnt because of the areas of the world we are from. but it doesnt mean anything. Who fkin knows....
maybe mars was once inhabited by white people before the fked the planet up and had to move to earth ....and maybe black people are from venus and the fked it up and had to move to earth as well....maybe asian people are the only ones who are originally from earth ..
who knows right? but who cares...
because that theory i just stated is as wrong as the ones your spewing out .
so dont lose your virginity over it

[Phait]

Originally Posted by Nashoba

No offense at all

When I mention I'm half blood, I merely refer to genetic proportions. It's just a sore point with me that I cannot legaly be part of my Nation, and cannot claim to be a native artist without being sued because I don't have a number that links to some government pedigree, and that we are the only race that has to prove this.

You're half and yet you don't qualify? I'm quarter Inupiat (Alaska Eskimo) and I qualify. That's a bit of a bummer.

[WVa Cherokee]

Originally Posted by beachsurfside

stop talkin about racism and queer stuff like that

Nice little contradition there. You don't want racism but you'll use bigotry against gays?

[Joe Siegler]

OK, we're so far off topic, it's not funny.

Remember, this forum is supposed to be about Prey - the game, not all these other side issues that have no point being in a Prey forum.