Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content

clayasaurus · 08-20-2009, 10:11 PM

Probably too late now, ... but I imagine the dev team could of been kept in tact if you released episodic content. Release what you have of DNF after polish, and call it DNF: Episode One. DNF Episode 2 could be done on an upgraded engine as well. Instead of re-writing the engine every 3 years, release what you have as an "Episode," upgrade engine, then work on the next chapter. This way you have a constant revenue stream, happy publishers, and you can still keep the graphics up to date with the latest trends + keep fans happy.

I wish we got a DNF episode for every engine upgrade there was, we'd be on episode 3 already, 3DR would get money, and we'd get a game :-/

Jiminator · 08-20-2009, 10:35 PM

whoa.... I bet they are kicking themselves after reading your post....

Semaj · 08-20-2009, 10:47 PM

Yes, if only they had the hindsight.

Mr Bear · 08-21-2009, 01:57 AM

So many goddamn reasons why that will never happen.....the first and foremost one being being that, as you mentioned, the game is way to far into development.

If they had gone about making smaller DNF "episodes" back when they restarted(again) in '02/'03 we would definitely have at least something by now.

But, if the official word can be believed(and quite often it can't), the DNF team has designed the game from the ground up with the intentions of shipping a full retail package containing a "complete" single player experience- from start to finish.

I gather they have been working on the entire game all these years, so rather than have the first 5 levels 100% done(as they would for episodic content), they have everything xx% done in bits and pieces. Needless to say, all non-episode-based game devs take this route, 3DR being no exception.

Gornemant · 08-21-2009, 03:25 AM

So that we can have really really long boring and repetitive levels just like in the HL2 episodes? Great idea!

... *headdesk*

Babe · 08-21-2009, 04:07 AM

Well no plan will work now until and unless the court case is settled. Lets be practical folks.

* Going back to play the awsome awsome Cannery boss in this awsome game - Wolfenstein *

midnitdragoon · 08-21-2009, 08:41 AM

that would be a great idea i guess...having some of the product out but then again...do i really want to wait 5 years between episodes?! ill be 30 by then if i do

then again...something is better than nothing..God i want this game bad.

fast-1 · 08-21-2009, 12:36 PM

Why not re-release the first 3 games on a Disc and sell it in shops with update graphics

, then use that money to fund development of DNF.

prophecy holder · 08-21-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

that would be a great idea i guess...having some of the product out but then again...do i really want to wait 5 years between episodes?! ill be 30 by then if i do

then again...something is better than nothing..God i want this game bad.

Look at people STILL waiting for episode 3 for Half life 2, no episodic games please. Just one complete game.

Jiminator · 08-21-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast-1

Why not re-release the first 3 games on a Disc and sell it in shops with update graphics

, then use that money to fund development of DNF.

you mean rehire all the people they laid off because they had no money, and have them work on updating an old project, that when its done will only sell for a few bucks per unit?

Wamplet · 08-21-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clayasaurus

Probably too late now, ... but I imagine the dev team could of been kept in tact if you released episodic content. Release what you have of DNF after polish, and call it DNF: Episode One. DNF Episode 2 could be done on an upgraded engine as well. Instead of re-writing the engine every 3 years, release what you have as an "Episode," upgrade engine, then work on the next chapter. This way you have a constant revenue stream, happy publishers, and you can still keep the graphics up to date with the latest trends + keep fans happy.

I wish we got a DNF episode for every engine upgrade there was, we'd be on episode 3 already, 3DR would get money, and we'd get a game :-/

If they had just gone the traditional route and just release a new Duke game every 3 years, they wouldn't have even needed to bother with that.

I don't see Episodic FPS games as being viable.

jet jaguar 2.0 · 08-21-2009, 07:23 PM

Best solution would be for 3DR to simply sell the ip to a company that can do the franchise some justice. 3DR was given 12 years to do the game justice and couldn't do it. I don't blame Take Two for not blindly handing over more funds to an inept team such as 3DR. Sell Duke Nukem to Monolith, Valve, or Rockstar and let them run with it. Not much sense in holding onto Duke if you're unable or unwilling to do anything meaningful, but then DNF's development rollercoaster made little sense.

Zeromaeus · 08-21-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jet jaguar 2.0

Best solution would be for 3DR to simply sell the ip to a company that can do the franchise some justice. 3DR was given 12 years to do the game justice and couldn't do it. I don't blame Take Two for not blindly handing over more funds to an inept team such as 3DR. Sell Duke Nukem to ..., Valve, or ... and let them run with it. Not much sense in holding onto Duke if you're unable or unwilling to do anything meaningful, but then DNF's development rollercoaster made little sense.

Edited for clarity

Babe · 08-22-2009, 02:10 AM

Oh no not Valve. They will infect the game with their cancerous STEAM. No Valve and no Episodic gaming please. Episodic gaming is a lazy idea for developers to release a semi-finished game and make more money out of it.

defragen1 · 08-22-2009, 02:39 AM

cancerous STEAM?
errmm what are you smoking?
steam is great! what other platform has a built-in web browser which you can access while ingame and use a instant messenger without ever having to minimize??? ( and don't even mention X-FIRE because it is epic fail )

so lets face it! buying games retail is a thing of the past
besides publishers are a pain in the ass and you make way more money without them if you only used an online distribution system
and if steam is cancerous then im sure duke nukem forever sales on steam would be cancerous as well

I do not supporting episodic content but i do support DNF being on steam!
if DNF would been planned to only be released on steam then they would of never had this little incident with take2 to begin with.. and instead of all this whining and moaning you would be posting here how much you love ur DNF and how you play it everyDAY

Suppressor1 · 08-22-2009, 02:45 AM

Steam... At first, I disliked steam. But now... I think it was (and is) a great idea! It is a comfortable and safe plattform for games. No Hl2 episode was semi-finished imho. Valve is doing a good job. Moaning about valves games is not correct, because they have released good games so far (and 3D Realms hasn´t done that much). Hl2 is a great game. 3D Realms should have released DNF episodes. Besides that, Duke 3D had many episodes, so it was the same kind of game stucture. Releasing DNF this way might have saved the company.

defragen1 · 08-22-2009, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suppressor1

Releasing DNF this way might have saved the company.

If they planned to do that from the beginning
DNF was planned out as a full game and you cant just take that and slap a "to be continued" somewhere

TripleH · 08-22-2009, 11:32 AM

so they've been working for 12 years... and let say after all that waiting we get episode one with 5-7 small levels....

Noway after all that waiting, promisses an so on I expect FULL game if it heappens at all ofcourse. and it better be good, if not duke nukem will be even a bigger joke than it is now.

Id rather see no game, than some kind of beta version or 5 hours of gameplay

JobivanHiob · 08-22-2009, 12:44 PM

having a troubling question: why did Scott release DNF pics on facebook while he just confirmed in the gamasutra interview that there is STILL the lawsuit around DNF.

peoplessi · 08-22-2009, 02:57 PM

Because he can?

I have no idea. Also, same for this thread - I bet they considered all options. Going episodic wouldn't have saved DNF. Would it have been even possible considering the deal they had with Take2.

Kristian Joensen · 08-22-2009, 03:59 PM

Take Two has the worldwide exclusive publishing rights to the sequel to Duke 3D, not to any specific set of levels or locations or anything like that.

WoodenSword · 08-22-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JobivanHiob

having a troubling question: why did Scott release DNF pics on facebook while he just confirmed in the gamasutra interview that there is STILL the lawsuit around DNF.

Maybe he used material that had been approved in the past for publication. Remeber the christmas pic with all the monsters? They should have taken the approval from Take two for that,shouldn't they?

On topic releasing DNF episodic content idea has been suggested again many times in the past and it is pretty lame and un-realistic (1st of all WHO would do that amount of work that involves finishing all underlying game layers -modelling/animation/optimization/debugging/etc-). I think 3d realms has done the best it can in this pretty bad situation. Promoting its online store, making/supervising mobile games, trying to find investors or a development team.

Btw don't believe the rumours about Gearbox,imo. Former Gearbox employees would have known about it, and as one of them have said in the past he doesn't, but he would (99.99 certain) if that was the case.

Gornemant · 08-23-2009, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by defragen1

so lets face it! buying games retail is a thing of the past

There's no way I'm buying games on Steam for several reasons:
- can't pay with USD in Europe
- 1USD = 1EUR policy
- and you can get most games on amazon.co.uk new for almost half the price of what you'd pay on steam, new and shipped.

Steam being cheaper for the customer instead of retail was a lie from the beginning.

KareBear · 08-23-2009, 11:50 AM

http://home.onego.ru/~timberwolf/ngp_06_20061016.mp3

Heres what Scott thinks about episodic content.Its a interesting listen.

peoplessi · 08-23-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

Take Two has the worldwide exclusive publishing rights to the sequel to Duke 3D, not to any specific set of levels or locations or anything like that.

And? Doesn't change a thing, they have rights to DNF publishing - and 3D Realms would have had to deliver that. I can't see how going episodic would have made any difference.

Kristian Joensen · 08-23-2009, 12:56 PM

The difference being that Take Two would only have the publishing rights for the first episode.

ZuljinRaynor · 08-23-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gornemant

- can't pay with USD in Europe

Probably a Publisher Eurozone thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gornemant

- 1USD = 1EUR policy

Not a policy. Some publishers do proper price conversion on Steam, some don't. That's not Steam, the's publishers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gornemant

- and you can get most games on amazon.co.uk new for almost half the price of what you'd pay on steam, new and shipped.

Not for USA.

And plus I enjoy not having to lug discs around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gornemant

Steam being cheaper for the customer instead of retail was a lie from the beginning.

Nope, it's cheaper for me since I don't have to pay a tax in New Jersey on Steam. I save a few bucks.

TonyPessimist · 08-23-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babe

Oh no not Valve. They will infect the game with their cancerous STEAM. No Valve and no Episodic gaming please. Episodic gaming is a lazy idea for developers to release a semi-finished game and make more money out of it.

You sir speak the truth

ZuljinRaynor · 08-23-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyPessimist

You sir speak the truth

No, he speaks his opinion. Opinions are not facts. Do you know why? Cause my opinion is the opposite. Though I don't want Valve making DNF, I would love to have it on Steam.

Zeromaeus · 08-23-2009, 10:30 PM

Valve has shown us that they can make games easily available (Steam) and overall fun to play (HL2, Portal, TF2). They aren't so good with the episodic thing though. Telltale games has thus far shown the only truly successful episodic game series, and it was a point 'n' click adventure series at that.
I singled out Valve only because they tend to make good games.

peoplessi · 08-24-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

The difference being that Take Two would only have the publishing rights for the first episode.

You mean if DNF would be sliced to 2 or more "episodes" - I'm not a lawyer, but I bet it isn't that simple. They could just throw a simple Duke Nukem game and call it DNF if it would be that easy.

prophecy holder · 08-25-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor

No, he speaks his opinion. Opinions are not facts. Do you know why? Cause my opinion is the opposite. Though I don't want Valve making DNF, I would love to have it on Steam.

No, he speaks the truth. When steam was released it was just a hastle playing games with it. Crashing, not downloading games correctly and all kinds of shittery things you get from a rushed program. Over time it's gotten better but still is shit, me and a couple friends tried downloading Killing floor through steam and it said "Game is not available" and we could not download it.

Well it decided to take our money but not give us the game, we complained to customer support people and they were just awful (they had no clue what the **** to do and just talked nonsense all the way) and I thought blizzard had bad customer support. Over the course of a week, yes a week, we finally got to play Killing floor through steam which promptly which went down and then knocked us off our internet. You might say "Oh it's just a one time thing" but no, it happened to me with two other games (other's being L4D and Half life: source).

ReadOnly · 08-25-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KareBear

http://home.onego.ru/~timberwolf/ngp_06_20061016.mp3

Wow, you've kept this link?

Gornemant · 08-27-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor

Probably a Publisher Eurozone thing.

Not a policy. Some publishers do proper price conversion on Steam, some don't. That's not Steam, the's publishers.

Not for USA.

And plus I enjoy not having to lug discs around.

Nope, it's cheaper for me since I don't have to pay a tax in New Jersey on Steam. I save a few bucks.

Isn't the point of steam to not have a publisher in between in the first place? Unless the game is publisher owned anyways...

So Valve is evil, but that we all knew long ago.

USA's not the only place on earth people play games ya no

Oh yes, I loved the tax thingy when I visited the States for the first time

ZuljinRaynor · 08-27-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gornemant

Isn't the point of steam to not have a publisher in between in the first place? Unless the game is publisher owned anyways...

Well, it depends. They can go straight to Valve, but if the made a deal with a publisher to handle all publishing, then it goes through the publisher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gornemant

So Valve is evil, but that we all knew long ago.

Of course considering there are former MS employees there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gornemant

USA's not the only place on earth people play games ya no

Thanks Captain Obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gornemant

Oh yes, I loved the tax thingy when I visited the States for the first time

Sales Tax and VAT are similar but different, but on Steam, I don't pay either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prophecy holder

Half life: source

Your fault for interest in that pathetic port.

TheZachadoodle · 08-27-2009, 03:13 PM

From 1998 to 2008 Serious Sam,Quake, and Half Life has taken Duke Nukems place now I think its the time 3D Realms should really try their best to work this game out. It has been long time hasn't it? But are the developers along with game still alive? Please answer this question George or Scott please! I know that I've heard 3D Realms is dead but is it really? Cause if it is then there might not be no more of Duke Nukem Forever.

KareBear · 08-27-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReadOnly

Wow, you've kept this link?

I got the filename of the podcast by looking up the next-gen podcast site in the Wayback Machine then i googled for it.

http://forums.duke4.net/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=10851

prophecy holder · 08-28-2009, 04:00 PM

Here is the best solution to help them get funding:

Eating contests, if he can group up with Gabe newell then they will be unstoppable.

MrAdidaking · 08-28-2009, 04:19 PM

I would have loved if they did that. But Scott Miller is so against it, it would never happen. 3DR is hell bent on not progressing with the gaming industry.

FlashBack · 08-28-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAdidaking

I would have loved if they did that. But Scott Miller is so against it, it would never happen. 3DR is hell bent on not progressing.

There I fixed that for you!

08-20-2009, 10:11 PM	#1
clayasaurus	Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Probably too late now, ... but I imagine the dev team could of been kept in tact if you released episodic content. Release what you have of DNF after polish, and call it DNF: Episode One. DNF Episode 2 could be done on an upgraded engine as well. Instead of re-writing the engine every 3 years, release what you have as an "Episode," upgrade engine, then work on the next chapter. This way you have a constant revenue stream, happy publishers, and you can still keep the graphics up to date with the latest trends + keep fans happy. I wish we got a DNF episode for every engine upgrade there was, we'd be on episode 3 already, 3DR would get money, and we'd get a game :-/

08-20-2009, 10:35 PM	#2
Jiminator	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content whoa.... I bet they are kicking themselves after reading your post.... __________________ big badass nasty weapons here....

08-20-2009, 10:47 PM	#3
Semaj	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Yes, if only they had the hindsight.

08-21-2009, 01:57 AM	#4
Mr Bear	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content So many goddamn reasons why that will never happen.....the first and foremost one being being that, as you mentioned, the game is way to far into development. If they had gone about making smaller DNF "episodes" back when they restarted(again) in '02/'03 we would definitely have at least something by now. But, if the official word can be believed(and quite often it can't), the DNF team has designed the game from the ground up with the intentions of shipping a full retail package containing a "complete" single player experience- from start to finish. I gather they have been working on the entire game all these years, so rather than have the first 5 levels 100% done(as they would for episodic content), they have everything xx% done in bits and pieces. Needless to say, all non-episode-based game devs take this route, 3DR being no exception.

08-21-2009, 03:25 AM	#5
Gornemant	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content So that we can have really really long boring and repetitive levels just like in the HL2 episodes? Great idea! ... headdesk

08-21-2009, 04:07 AM	#6
Babe	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Well no plan will work now until and unless the court case is settled. Lets be practical folks. * Going back to play the awsome awsome Cannery boss in this awsome game - Wolfenstein *

08-21-2009, 08:41 AM	#7
midnitdragoon	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content that would be a great idea i guess...having some of the product out but then again...do i really want to wait 5 years between episodes?! ill be 30 by then if i do then again...something is better than nothing..God i want this game bad.

08-21-2009, 12:36 PM	#8
fast-1	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Why not re-release the first 3 games on a Disc and sell it in shops with update graphics , then use that money to fund development of DNF.

08-21-2009, 07:23 PM	#12
jet jaguar 2.0	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Best solution would be for 3DR to simply sell the ip to a company that can do the franchise some justice. 3DR was given 12 years to do the game justice and couldn't do it. I don't blame Take Two for not blindly handing over more funds to an inept team such as 3DR. Sell Duke Nukem to Monolith, Valve, or Rockstar and let them run with it. Not much sense in holding onto Duke if you're unable or unwilling to do anything meaningful, but then DNF's development rollercoaster made little sense. __________________ Resident Evil 4 + Orgazmo = Now you're a Mwwwaan!

08-22-2009, 02:10 AM	#14
Babe	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Oh no not Valve. They will infect the game with their cancerous STEAM. No Valve and no Episodic gaming please. Episodic gaming is a lazy idea for developers to release a semi-finished game and make more money out of it.

08-22-2009, 02:39 AM	#15
defragen1	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content cancerous STEAM? errmm what are you smoking? steam is great! what other platform has a built-in web browser which you can access while ingame and use a instant messenger without ever having to minimize??? ( and don't even mention X-FIRE because it is epic fail ) so lets face it! buying games retail is a thing of the past besides publishers are a pain in the ass and you make way more money without them if you only used an online distribution system and if steam is cancerous then im sure duke nukem forever sales on steam would be cancerous as well I do not supporting episodic content but i do support DNF being on steam! if DNF would been planned to only be released on steam then they would of never had this little incident with take2 to begin with.. and instead of all this whining and moaning you would be posting here how much you love ur DNF and how you play it everyDAY Last edited by defragen1; 08-22-2009 at 02:42 AM.

08-22-2009, 02:45 AM	#16
Suppressor1	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Steam... At first, I disliked steam. But now... I think it was (and is) a great idea! It is a comfortable and safe plattform for games. No Hl2 episode was semi-finished imho. Valve is doing a good job. Moaning about valves games is not correct, because they have released good games so far (and 3D Realms hasn´t done that much). Hl2 is a great game. 3D Realms should have released DNF episodes. Besides that, Duke 3D had many episodes, so it was the same kind of game stucture. Releasing DNF this way might have saved the company.

08-22-2009, 11:32 AM	#18
TripleH	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content so they've been working for 12 years... and let say after all that waiting we get episode one with 5-7 small levels.... Noway after all that waiting, promisses an so on I expect FULL game if it heappens at all ofcourse. and it better be good, if not duke nukem will be even a bigger joke than it is now. Id rather see no game, than some kind of beta version or 5 hours of gameplay

08-22-2009, 12:44 PM	#19
JobivanHiob	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content having a troubling question: why did Scott release DNF pics on facebook while he just confirmed in the gamasutra interview that there is STILL the lawsuit around DNF. __________________ Stay up to date with http://dukewatch.blogspot.com for the UNEXPECTED and PREPARE YOURSELF for SHOCK and AWESOME on Penny Arcade EXPO from September 3-5! Onebullit: "If DNF comes out in 2010 i will buy 2 copies and send you one." pjVgt regading DNF at PAX:"I would seriously shit my pants and pre-order three copies - one will be sent to Jobi"

08-22-2009, 02:57 PM	#20
peoplessi	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Because he can? I have no idea. Also, same for this thread - I bet they considered all options. Going episodic wouldn't have saved DNF. Would it have been even possible considering the deal they had with Take2. __________________ Duke Nukem Forever Who am I to judge?

08-22-2009, 03:59 PM	#21
Kristian Joensen	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Take Two has the worldwide exclusive publishing rights to the sequel to Duke 3D, not to any specific set of levels or locations or anything like that. __________________ The Philosophy Of Liberty, Chaos Theory Tachyons, Time Travel, and Divine Omniscience A Refutation of Moral Relativism(Transcript)

08-23-2009, 11:50 AM	#24
KareBear	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content http://home.onego.ru/~timberwolf/ngp_06_20061016.mp3 Heres what Scott thinks about episodic content.Its a interesting listen.

08-23-2009, 12:56 PM	#26
Kristian Joensen	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content The difference being that Take Two would only have the publishing rights for the first episode. __________________ The Philosophy Of Liberty, Chaos Theory Tachyons, Time Travel, and Divine Omniscience A Refutation of Moral Relativism(Transcript)

08-23-2009, 10:30 PM	#30
Zeromaeus	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Valve has shown us that they can make games easily available (Steam) and overall fun to play (HL2, Portal, TF2). They aren't so good with the episodic thing though. Telltale games has thus far shown the only truly successful episodic game series, and it was a point 'n' click adventure series at that. I singled out Valve only because they tend to make good games.

08-27-2009, 03:13 PM	#36
TheZachadoodle	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content From 1998 to 2008 Serious Sam,Quake, and Half Life has taken Duke Nukems place now I think its the time 3D Realms should really try their best to work this game out. It has been long time hasn't it? But are the developers along with game still alive? Please answer this question George or Scott please! I know that I've heard 3D Realms is dead but is it really? Cause if it is then there might not be no more of Duke Nukem Forever.

08-28-2009, 04:00 PM	#38
prophecy holder	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content Here is the best solution to help them get funding: Eating contests, if he can group up with Gabe newell then they will be unstoppable. __________________ "Ever since I was a little boy, dressing up has always been...my greatest joy. But when It's time to be discreet, there is one thing you just can't beat and that's a strapless backless classical little black dress" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e4BCOrLmJ0

08-28-2009, 04:19 PM	#39
MrAdidaking	Re: Solution for 3DR - Release DNF Episodic Content I would have loved if they did that. But Scott Miller is so against it, it would never happen. 3DR is hell bent on not progressing with the gaming industry.