So what next?

[cube_b3]

I apologize in advance if this question has been asked already.

The forum locking issue has been resolved and aside from DNF, I think we are free to discuss anything we want here. While I registered to the forum to talk
about Max Payne during the lock down I just moved to the Remedy Forums.

So maybe 6 months or more later i'm back and am just curios if 3D Realms is developing or collaborating on another project.

[cube_b3]

Excruciatingly loud silence.

I've grown up seeing the 3D Realms logo flash before my favorite games...

Duke 3D.
Ps1 Duke Games.
Max Payne Series.
Prey (though i've not beaten the game yet).

So for what it's worth I will feel a sense of loss not seeing this logo, in another historical game just like I miss Acclaim's logo or any other brand that I grew up with.

[SpinX]

I think its safe to say this is now a fan forum, and 3drealms doesn't exist anymore sadly...

hope lots of forum members will find their way back here, I did after 9months

[crunchy superman]

I think all we can ever expect to see again (if anything at all) are just flash games/stuff for phones.

Never know.

[filipetolhuizen]

If it doesn't exist anymore, they should release the remaining source codes. I'd love to see a Terminal Velocity port.

[StrikerMan780]

Originally Posted by filipetolhuizen

If it doesn't exist anymore, they should release the remaining source codes. I'd love to see a Terminal Velocity port.

I agree whole heartedly. Terminal Velocity Source Code would be ******* amazing.

[Wesker500]

3DR still exists; George Broussard, Bryan Turner and I think Scott Miller and Joe Siegler are still here, however I think they have no internal development team, but 3DR renewed their rights to the Bombshell IP recently and I heard a rumor that Interceptor is developing a game and 3DR is producing, 3DR can still do that

I still have faith in you 3D Realms

[MusicallyInspired]

Joe Siegler works for Gearbox now.

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

Joe Siegler works for Gearbox now.

Hasn't for a while now, actually.

[GrimWoman]

Really? Do you know happened?

[crunchy superman]

Just wanted to do other things. He didn't want to make a big deal out of it, so maybe I should have kept my mouth shut. Guess I thought more people knew.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Originally Posted by Wesker500

Interceptor

Are these those guys that were making that destined to fail project "Duke Nukem 3D Reloaded? I would prefer 3DR not work with such hacks as fresch.

[joey007]

Wow, i cant believe its been a year since ive visited this forum crazy how quiet this forum has become

[MrBlackCat]

Well... with Duke Nukem gone from here, what is there that really draws a crowd? There are no known games being developed here or even over at the "The New Apogee" site.

Every once in a while I go to GearBox and look at how many people are in the various root threads... Borderlands has consistently twice as many as Duke Nukem Forever. Crazy considering their release date differential.
I don't like or play any cell-shaded games, so Borderlands is out for me, but I can't say with certain what causes so much more activity in the Borderlands thread over Duke Nukem Forever.
At first thought, it looks like more people like it. Maybe... but maybe the players of Duke Nukem Forever are less likely to be forum dwellers. I have witnessed the rise and fall of Duke Nukem in my eyes. I will likely continue to pass through these forums as long as they remain. Logically I consider it like going back to fish in the same spot where you caught that big one once, though it never happened again, and you know deep down it really won't. The present can't change the past however.

... as I finish up my game room, I realize that Duke Nukem is the major force in here. The room is nearly themed Duke Nukem. Standee's, posters, store displays, toys, music, books, magazines, guides, games for handhelds GBC, GBA to DS, , cell phones, PDA's, and PS1 to PS3, PC, Duke Memory cards for older consoles, a dozen shirts, mouse pads lots of unofficial and custom Duke items... I have had Duke Nukem ring tone since it came out for example.

All of that is a good past I carry with me... old memories basically. You can only talk about the past so long, then you have to move on. I would like some new Duke memories, but it looks like I will drag this gaming icon corpse until there is no more than dust left. If the Duke is somehow reborn, I will be right there to see it, but I don't see how it will ever be like that again here. Nothing against GearBox, but it just isn't the same over there, or maybe I am not longer the same... I'll still buy most anything that looks like a Duke Nukem product however. Nostalgia can be a great cushion for reality sometimes.

Ok... I'm done now. (exits the stage quietly with a sense of being over-dramatic)

MrBlackCat

[Rapture_Rising]

Originally Posted by MrBlackCat

Well... with Duke Nukem gone from here, what is there that really draws a crowd? There are no known games being developed here or even over at the "The New Apogee" site.

I think Apogee are producing a new Rise of the Triad, i asked recently and the forum admin for Apogee said that progress is being made so i have my fingers crossed that we see an announcement sometime this year for it.

[MrBlackCat]

Hey R_R...
Yeah, I saw that and commented as well. Pretty vague, but something. I was typing more in the context of something we could type about. The new Apogee is doing something, but there is even less to talk about it (new ROTT) than there was for Duke Nukem Forever for all these years.
If some screen shots, a trailer, a teaser or anything were to be revealed we could all speculate about it. Then we could speculate on the rumors. Then speculate on our speculations, make up excuses why our predictions of release dates don't happen, argue about different opinions, get banned and so on, then have a community again. But there isn't enough seed and water to grow that crop with any new Apogee or 3D Realms game.
You are right though... the new Apogee is apparently working on the new ROTT. I check their site every week or so in hopes of something new.

It will most likely be an Android game... care to speculate? (I think there is a thread for this already somewhere else though. )

MrBlackCat

[moron]

It is really a shame to see the cool stuff we grew up with disappear but.... what can we do

[MrBlackCat]

I drag the cool stuff we grew up with right along with me...
As much of it as I can.

MrBlackCat

[moron]

I had to toss mine some years ago 2 trash bags full of game boxes ... a real shame

[MrFlibble]

It's a pity you had to throw away your stuff man, but the experience you had with it, the fun - no one can take it from you

And besides, we can all contribute a little to keep the good old things, by promoting retro gaming and generally maintaining a cheerful attitude, right?

[MrBlackCat]

I am really happy to see so many retro games re-captured in many modern ways. From emulators on many systems, to these "Plug and Play" games having multiple titles. Things like the Atari FlashBack systems. I have many of these game systems just for the day when "the real thing" dies off.
Of course many of these games are not retro, but many of them are... roughly half. Of the half that isn't, many are running on simple hardware and have the look and feel of old Atari, NES and Genesis games.
Actually Sega is packaging theirs often in these little systems. I have a Sega Genesis Gopher, which is a hybrid handheld with 20 built in full 16 bit Genesis games, BUT it has an SD card slot and will play ROMS! (yep)

Here is some of my Plug and Play games...


On the table are modern Atari Flashbacks 1&2 and a few other modern systems, but in the drawers there are games that play Namco's arcade versions of Pac-Man, Ms Pac-Man, Bosconian, Galaga, Mappy, Pole Position, Rally-X and a lot more.
There are Sega 8 Bit and 16 bit, that play games like Sonic, Ecco, Street Fighter II, and about 20 others.
Then Commodore, ColecoVision, Intellivision, and other systems with a few representative games... from 5 to 20 per system maybe.

I am glad to see this and glad that the companies that actually own this stuff are able to still draw revenue from it.
From Pong to Mortal Combat, there are so many great titles recaptured this way. And they never expire, get corrupted by an update or OS failure etc... as long as I keep batteries in these little systems, the should outlast me.

MrBlackCat

[MrFlibble]

Heh, you've got one impressive collection there ^_^ Myself being a PC gamer (never owned a console at all, in fact), I can only pity how PC hardware ages faster than you can buy it :P Luckily there are functional emulators like DOSBox, but for the real experience, you need a vintage machine (or, preferably, several different configurations) and an appropriate amount of time and money to assemble and maintain it.

[MrBlackCat]

Believe it or not, I am mostly a PC gamer... all the boxes on the walls are First Person Shooters (about 300 of them) and their add-ons... all of them are Pre-WinXP. I have about a dozen old PC's from PII's to early 386's (16mhz) including 7 Pentiums which are perfect for Duke and Quake etc.
I seldom use DOSBox, though I do have it of course. Most of the reason being that a great deal of my enjoyment of PC's is LAN games, and I can't use it for that.
I am NOT knocking DOSBox though... I think it is great for most old gaming applications, as well as other uses.

All of the PC's have a user friendly menu systems which loads appropriate drivers for various games or sets of games on request.

Funny you mention how fast PC hardware ages... at one point I realized I had spent 10,000 a year for 3 years on PC networking and machines. Some time later, maybe 5 years, the whole system could be replaced for probably $2000. (This is not an exaggeration) Of course this was in the early 90's. Intel LAN cards were $110 for instance... I had a dozen of them. I was buying faster and faster modems every time they game out, at great expense. Hard drive sizes were exploding and I was buying every couple of weeks at I upgraded machines and maxed out hardware that had to be replaced. (Processor socket changes, memory types migrating from 30 pin to 72 and so on)
Anyway, I do understand the painful PC hardware cycle. There was a time when I sold memory upgrades for $100 per MEG, installed. If I could get that now, I would only need a couple of upgrades per year to make a great living!

But the point is that I am glad to see enough interest in these old games, for companies to bring them back in some ways.

MrBlackCat

[MrFlibble]

Took a closer look at your first photo and noticed what appears to be a PC version of Super 3D Noah's Ark. Somehow I've always thought it was a console-only title?

Also, is that NAM/Napalm on the shelf directly above South Park & Strife?

[The Dukenator]

Super 3D Noah's Ark was for DOS & SNES.
You can buy it for PC from: http://www.wisdomtreegames.com/games/super3dnoahsark/

[MrBlackCat]

It is true as stated above... Super Noah's Ark 3D was in fact cursed onto... uh, I mean put on PC also.
I remember it as being made for the PC first, but the SNES version is just more popular/famous because of the rumors surrounding it... as it is the only unlicensed Super Nintendo cartridge. It uses a pass-through for a licensed cartridge in order to play.
I don't know where I got this information, but I see Masters of Doom from David Kushner as a reference for the title, so I probably read it there. I did type with a developer from Wisdom Tree many years ago though, so I could have been first hand also... or maybe I just remember it backwards.

And yes, Nam and Napalm are there as well... I did manage to get around 270 boxed games on the wall shelves.
Ran out of space, so I will be going to the ceiling now. A bit more tricky, but the prototype ceiling rack/shelf section I have up is satisfactory. I won't post a game list here as this is getting a bit off topic, but here are direct links to most of the 3DFPS game shelves if they are of interest.
These are older images and the arrangement has been tweaked some since these were taken.
The games are mostly in alphabetical order, but matching a spreadsheet, EXCEPT for large groups within, like Duke Nukem, DooM, Deer Hunter, Quake etc. The alphabetical arrangement "jumps" the groups.




MrBlackCat

[Dopefish7590]

Holy jeez. That's one impressive collection there, MrBlackCat..!

[8IronBob]

Originally Posted by crunchy superman

Just wanted to do other things. He didn't want to make a big deal out of it, so maybe I should have kept my mouth shut. Guess I thought more people knew.

He would probably fit in with id Software, considering the old partnership that Apogee had with them during the earlier years (pre-Doom).

[Frenkel]

Joe applied for a job at id Software, but then ZeniMax acquired id Software and the job disappeared. http://joe.siegler.net/2011/08/goodbye-duke-nukem/

[8IronBob]

Trying to think of other studios in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metro area that would be a good enough fit... Hmm.
Maybe he might have better luck relocating to the Pacific Northwest, and try for Valve, Microsoft, or Arena.net? He probably might get a job on the Steam team.

[Hanu8]

You know, I was wondering why hasn't anyone suggested Kickstarter yet. I for example would help fund a good game made by 3D Realms, and I believe other fans would also help. Also there are many people that would like a good retro style game. Let's say for example a new Bio Menace game. I strongly believe that it would work, it did for Wasteland 2. They gathered 2,933,252 dollars, the original game was release in 1988. And this way 3D Realms can develop, publish, and distribute the game on its own.

[MrBlackCat]

I don't know that money is really the issue and a few million dollars would not do much for these days. (other than show investors it was a potential investment)... I just don't see the market for it... other than you an I.

Not trying to be negative... I am speaking (typing) in general.

I would buy any modern platformer if Apogee/3D Realms made them, most likely. I enjoy all of those. I still play Duke Nukem on Game Boy Color though. Probably not very common.

I think these games would suffer the same as Critical Mass did. I enjoyed it a lot, but I might be the only one.

MrBlackCat

[ZuljinRaynor]

I don't know how many people would be willing to give money to 3DRealms after DNF.

Originally Posted by MrBlackCat

I don't know that money is really the issue and a few million dollars would not do much for these days. (other than show investors it was a potential investment)... I just don't see the market for it... other than you an I.

That would be the point of a Kickstarter. It wouldn't be to sell to the mainstream market, but to the market that wants it.

[MrBlackCat]

I see... what do you think it would cost for a good ole fashion side scroller? I would take that chance with Apogee.

I am not concerned with "blame" relative to Apogee/3D Realms/George B and Scott M... the responsibility is there, but who doesn't make BIG FAT mistakes sometimes.

If they did this, I would support them.

MrBlackCat

[ZuljinRaynor]

Well, I don't know.

It depends on what they want from it and how it's going to look. I'm sure a 2D side scroller that just has sprites could be done with <$500,000. It really depends on the size of the project.

These are two Kickstarters I supported:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...dowrun-returns

Here are some of the most funded Video Game Projects:
http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/...unded?ref=more

Just take a look at their pages, and the update pages, so you can see how they plan on making these. Usually it's there is a goal for what they believe is the bare minimum to make the game and make it good. Then they add stretch goals so the more money they get, the bigger and better the game is.

The Double Fine Adventure game was going to be a small game at first. They got more money, so as they got more money, they planned on making the team bigger, the game bigger, etc.

[MrBlackCat]

I am familiar with KickStarter... I watched a few myself.
I REALLY like the concept of of it.

One of the reasons I find it interesting is how many of the games have "Boxed" versions of their product! Most at the $50 if they offer it. The physical copy of something is very important to me.

Actually if I got started I could rattle on for a very long time of so many benefits and advantages of the KickStarter method.

One thing is for sure, it weeds out the noisy... only the serious fans will do something like this.

I would trust few with this, but Apogee would be one of them. The pitch is critical though... one thing I see consistently is that the video pitches are sincere for the ones that REALLY blow it out. If you don't show me a plan, my money stays in my wallet or goes to a more organized plan. The lazy ones fail most of the time... so you can see why.

Ok, /end of ramble

MrBlackCat

[ZuljinRaynor]

Ah, well if you are familiar with Kickstarter, then you should know about the money requirements.

I couldn't myself determine how much money a side-scroller would need. Sure you can make one for 10K, but from 3DR I would expect something with more production values.

I have no idea what the cost would be.

[MrBlackCat]

Oh I just mean the site/concept... the development costs I have not really tried to group or track. I have looked a the games that have made it and failed basically... I guess there is an "I told you so" situation there... but I sure do like it compared to market research businesses. It is Reality vs Prediction to me. Humbling. If for no other purpose but to satisfy my view of my own predictive ability, I would like to see a company I know well, try this. This being the only game I have ever followed, that isn't a likely opportunity.
I have no idea what can be made, but one thing is for sure from browsing the site... the costs vary dramatically. I guess it is like making a race car conceptually... the effort goes up exponentially as the "percentage of perfection" grows. I don't mean bugs, I just mean polish in all areas. The best example I have been exposed to is LameDuke... it took like a year to get from Lame Duke to Duke 3D I think. That is a LOT of money/time to make those differences. It was well worth it in Duke Nukem 3D's case I think.

Can you imagine the kick in the face it is when your project doesn't make it? I personally can not. It would be brutal in my opinion. I don't think anyone does a Kickstarter without really believing in their potential to make it, being very very likely. I would take it as a personal failure of my ability to estimate my standing with "fans" or within a given industry etc.

MrBlackCat

[MrFlibble]

Originally Posted by Rapture_Rising

I think Apogee are producing a new Rise of the Triad, i asked recently and the forum admin for Apogee said that progress is being made so i have my fingers crossed that we see an announcement sometime this year for it.

Just noticed this (never heard about this before), has there been any news on the project since?

As for the general idea of "new stuff", my opinion is that sometimes a good, quality add-on/expansion/level pack is just as good (or even better) than a completely new game. There are lots of excellent modern projects for Duke Nukem 3D for example (as well as for many other games that have their source code made public domain), yet I think there's a certain additional appeal of a label saying "official" or "authorized" on the cover

BTW, haven't had the time to check out Return of the Triad yet, but it does have a very cool, professionally done look to it

[MrBlackCat]

I frequent the official Apogee site, but it has been hacked a few times and deleted completely and replaced at least twice, resulting in the loss of past discussion and comment surrounding Rise of the Triad.

Rise of the Triad... I played that multi-player along with all the other Wolf Engine games for years along side DooM and Build engine games. Rise of the Triad was an odd game, but made excellent use of the tech at the time, much like Duke Nukem 3D did. It is my opinion, with its digitized enemies, and real-time puzzles/secrets, I have always classed it with DooM engine and later 3D FPS games.

Modernization of a game like Rise of the Triad could be great, but so could almost any of the Apogee games.

I would buy most any of the old Apogee IP's converted to 3D, even on the Build engine, just like was done with Duke Nukem to 3D. I already "know" the characters, and to me that is what should have happened all along. When I start thinking of what could have been done with Commander Keen, Monster Bash, Halloween Harry, Bio Menace etc... even Cosmo, Crystal Caves and others could have had 3D versions and additional story written. I realize all the IP's aren't directly owned, but back then I am sure something could have been worked out. I try to own every game on the Build Engine... so I would have bought any of these IP's had they been brought to the 3D world.

MrBlackCat