The Windows 8 Thread

[KO Gilligan]

Any opinions/info/ideas on Windows 8?

I was just reading something about the $40 upgrade that will be available as a promotion through January 2013:

The $40 install is A full licensed Win 8 Pro, which features "downgrade rights".
Does this mean an XP or Vista user can buy this and then downgrade to Windows 7 Pro? I was reading an article on anandtech which claims just that....

I personally think Win 8 looks like they are doing a Vista move only with a very ugly interface.

Any Win 8 testers here like this new platform?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I'll upgrade one of my computers to windows 8 once released.

I'm thinking it won't be bad. Plus I like the purported integration with skydrive.

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...s-8s-skydrive/

[ixfd64]

I have a feeling that Windows 8 isn't going to do very well, and it's going to end up a lot like Vista.

[8IronBob]

Well, tell you what. Windows 8 was okay...I'm not saying that it'll be the best replacement for Windows 7 at all, but it would be great for laptops and netbooks more than anything. I'm most likely going to upgrade my laptop to Windows 8, but I'm quite sure I'll be sticking with Win 7 Pro x64 on my desktop. Windows 8 seems to be more biased towards mobile PCs like laptops and tablets.

[Kit]

Gabe Newell doesn't seem impressed:

'Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe,' Valve boss says

Valve head Gabe Newell is not a fan of Windows 8. "I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space," he said rather bluntly. "If that's true, it's going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality."

What is the cause for Newell's vitriol against Microsoft's next OS? He sees a movement away from open platforms to a closed one. Perhaps there's other reasons as well: Windows 8 brings about features like the built-in Windows Store app marketplace and Xbox Live integration--both which threaten Steam's stronghold in the PC gaming scene.

Newell argues that open platforms are important for innovation to thrive. "Valve wouldn't exist if it weren't for the PC," he said at Casual Connect (via VentureBeat). "Id Software, Epic, Zynga, Facebook, and Google wouldn't have existed without the openness of the platform."

With both Apple and Microsoft increasingly focused on closed app store-based operating systems, Valve's increasing investment in Linux starts to make sense. The company recently launched Left 4 Dead 2 on the OS, and has bigger plans for its future. "We have to start finding ways that we can continue to make sure there are open platforms. So that involves a couple of different things. One, we're trying to make sure that Linux thrives."

"Our perception is that one of the big problems holding Linux back is the absence of games. I think that a lot of people--in their thinking about platforms--don't realize how critical games are as a consumer driver of purchases and usage," Newell said. "So we're going to continue working with the Linux distribution guys, shipping Steam, shipping our games, and making it as easy as possible for anybody who's engaged with us--putting their games on Steam and getting those running on Linux, as well."

http://www.shacknews.com/article/749...alve-boss-says

Have to agree after reading some of the comments over at Shack. Don't like the idea of a closed platform.

[8IronBob]

Yep, seems like Canonical and the Ubuntu brand might see a huge surge this upcoming generation of OS platforms.

[KO Gilligan]

I'd love to see this push gamers to Linux. I love Ubuntu, but setting up the sound to an add-in card was ridiculous. I was pulling my hair out last year as the system kept reverting to the crappy on-board chip. Linux just doesn't get enough attention in the area of multimedia development.

[8IronBob]

I totally agree. Although, I do think OpenSUSE had a better audio codec than most other Linux distros (Sure, Novell certainly wants to think their flavor of Linux is such a Windows alternative). Now in terms of Linux in general, as much as I like the WINE idea, I still think these developers and publishers should concentrate on more native Linux versions of some of these games. I'm pretty sure that Gabe Newell would be on board with bringing Steam to the Linux platform. Sure wouldn't surprise me.

[Crosma]

The hybrid interface is just bizarre to use. It's the worst of all worlds.

Microsoft is effectively trying to deprecate the old desktop interface in favour of Metro. More power to them, but it's just more reason for me to not take them seriously.

[8IronBob]

Originally Posted by Crosma

The hybrid interface is just bizarre to use. It's the worst of all worlds.

Microsoft is effectively trying to deprecate the old desktop interface in favour of Metro. More power to them, but it's just more reason for me to not take them seriously.

I agree. It almost makes it seem like Microsoft wants to make their new Metro platform less of a gaming platform, and more geared towards the tablet/mobile crowd than anything. Let's just hope that Microsoft won't pull the plug on Windows 7 and the gaming community any time soon. Seems like we'd better pull together and share our concerns before Mr. Ballmer.

[pjVgt]

Originally Posted by 8IronBob

I agree. It almost makes it seem like Microsoft wants to make their new Metro platform less of a gaming platform, and more geared towards the tablet/mobile crowd than anything. Let's just hope that Microsoft won't pull the plug on Windows 7 and the gaming community any time soon. Seems like we'd better pull together and share our concerns before Mr. Ballmer.

Can't blame them for it - they pay for making arguably the best OS ever (XP). People still own XP and 2000 even when 7 came out. There is strong competition in desktops from Apple and Linux (in office/goverment use). That cake is already sliced - however on tablets and mobile Microsoft is almost non-existent. Mobile is the future - not clunky desktops hidden inside office cubicles.

[Dopefish7590]

Originally Posted by 8IronBob

Yep, seems like Canonical and the Ubuntu brand might see a huge surge this upcoming generation of OS platforms.

2012: Year of the Linux Desktop!

[KO Gilligan]

Using Win 8 64pro right now on my son's computer. They offer 4 versions free in my ELMS (Dreamspark Premium) account. Decided it would be good for him to learn, and it has parental monitoring features.

Seems to be efficient and I was expecting UAC and compatibility hang ups, but none...

Does a nice job with the driver updates, and they can be checked online from the device manager. I'm a little reluctant to use mfg. drivers when Windows is recognizing everything and updating as necessary.

Best way to describe it is two desktops. The traditional one, and the Start desktop - the start desktop is it's whole reason for existence - Windows 8 now integrates with all the Microsoft Live stuff on a individual user basis - account, app store, Bing news and weather, Sky Drive, etc. It's all on a Win 3.1-esque blocky screen. Half of the blocks are blank if you don't link your user account with a Live/Hotmail email account.

Installed programs are automatically added as smaller blocks. You can also have them as traditional shortcuts on the Windows desktop.

Nothing really wrong so far, kids games from various release years are running beautifully - not the Vista user experience I was expecting.

Downloaded programs are typically blocked from install at the install screen. It goes to a big blocky screen where you select "More" and "install anyway"

[KO Gilligan]

Looks like I spoke too soon about compatibility issues. My Win 8 does not like older windows games that run fine in Win 7. They typically fail from the first splashscreen and stop, or put up some big blocky color squares. Hopefully theres some patching and workarounds. Seems like the compatibility settings are worthless.

[8IronBob]

Glad I only used my laptop for beta testing Windows 8 on. I don't think I'd like the results of what Windows 8 would have done on my desktop after hearing that about older games like that, KO.

[IceColdDuke]

At first like most people I hated the "Modern UI", now every time I go back to a Windows 7 box I feel like its a antique. Bottom line you will probably hate when you first install it, and love it within a week.

[KO Gilligan]

If I wanted anything other than the traditional desktop, there is plenty of interface options out there. I like the traditional desktop environment and don't see any point of the change in scenery on a desktop computer.

I have to say one thing about Windows 8 vs Windows 7 vs Vista;
Some things must be better optimized in Windows 8. The Win 8 machine I built is mediocre specs - but it boots up super fast, and installing programs is faster - I just installed the same webcam program in a new quad core Windows 7, and the Dual core Windows 8 machine with overall slower components, and the Win 8 machine completed the install much faster - there must be some optimizations, and less total resource use... Makes sense when you think about the poor performance tablet this OS is supposed to run on.

[Crosma]

Originally Posted by IceColdDuke

Bottom line you will probably hate when you first install it, and love it within a week.

I just find that it's like wading in tar. Maybe I just don't understand how it's meant to be used, but if it's that unintuitive then how are "normal" people going to manage?

Also, the flat boxy graphics gives it a distinctly EGA sort of feel to me. Looks really old fashioned.

[8IronBob]

Meh, glad I canceled my preorder just in time. Had second thoughts on how dumb I would be by not doing so. This is one of the OSes that I should actually give it about a few months to watch to see what everyone's reaction would be, THEN jump on the System Builder or Upgrade, whatever, if and when the time feels right.

[KO Gilligan]

Originally Posted by 8IronBob

Meh, glad I canceled my preorder just in time. Had second thoughts on how dumb I would be by not doing so. This is one of the OSes that I should actually give it about a few months to watch to see what everyone's reaction would be, THEN jump on the System Builder or Upgrade, whatever, if and when the time feels right.

$40 for the upgrade (download version) until January 31.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/buy

There was a recent news release where they are talking about the quicker boot-up and something about it being faster or something.

I can see the point. It'll probably run well on slower systems. The dopey blocks for a start screen is not only for tablets - it's a marketing gimmick to better product positiong of Windows Live, Windows Apps, Sky Drive, Bing, and whatever makes them a buck.

My system admin password is my damn hotmail account - seems like just yesterday the anti-trust people were all over Microsoft for manipulating our browsing experience with the inclusion of IE in the operating system. They've been planning this type of multi-level product integration for many years.

Originally Posted by Crosma

Looks really old fashioned.

It looks like a Hi-Res add-on pack for Windows 3.1

[IceColdDuke]

Originally Posted by Crosma

I just find that it's like wading in tar. Maybe I just don't understand how it's meant to be used, but if it's that unintuitive then how are "normal" people going to manage?

Also, the flat boxy graphics gives it a distinctly EGA sort of feel to me. Looks really old fashioned.

They are moving towards the notion of a more streamlined less distracting operating system that has a uniform UI across all devices. When the first introduced the modern UI, for the first time in what 17 years i turned a windows computer and felt confused, so i understand exactly were your coming from, but after awhile it really just became second nature again, i feel now its way more streamlined than it was before.

I for the life of me can't give you a tangible technical reason why that is but it just is at least for me. I feel more like more people will jump on board with windows 9 unless aaa game studios release windows versions that are 8 only, otherwise if you don't like the UI, you can probably skip 8 without missing out on much.

[KO Gilligan]

The new flavors of liunx desktops look high-tech and are awesome. Apple's environment looks great. I've been used to Windows so long, I just love Windows 7 perfectly - don't even miss the old program file menu tree stuff. The new version is just great. I even liked Vista gadgets - was dissappointed that they never really took off (although you'll see Win8 gives them a big nod)

Win 8 is not the same. That first start screen is tablet friendly, and links you to everything commercial that Microsoft can sell/give you. I see Windows 8 as filling the tablet/netbook nitch - it's vastly superior to WindowsCE, but it's not designed for big desktop displays.

Regarding the integration to MS services, it's actually pretty cool. I'm not against them. In fact, I don't know if anyone else likes MS Security Essentials but I think it's spiffy.

[Crosma]

Originally Posted by KO Gilligan

The new flavors of liunx desktops look high-tech and are awesome.

Quite. I use Slackware Linux with Enlightenment 17 and it's beautiful. My laptop runs Mac OS X and it's beautiful. Windows 7 managed to come out looking very swish indeed. Windows 8 looks very dated by comparison to all of these, so I'm just very confused.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Been using Windows 8 for a while now and I'm really liking it. Already used to the Start Screen.

I do miss Aero, but oh well.

[KO Gilligan]

This is a Microsoft site with stuff for developers

http://www.buildwindows.com/

and here's a direct link to a free digital book and some other links for app makers

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/microsoft_pr...avascript.aspx

[8IronBob]

Looks like the workplace where I am is finally upgrading to Windows 7 and Office 2010, and I was like "Wow, talk about being one generation behind what's out there now." Also, I was like, "It's about time." Talk about a workplace being behind the times. Jeez, although I do agree with their decision not to use Windows 8, it's not a very office workplace-friendly operating system.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Workplaces always do this.

Also Start Screen vs Start Menu doesn't some how make Windows 8 any different. You still can run all your normal work programs like usual.

[KO Gilligan]

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor

Workplaces always do this.

Also Start Screen vs Start Menu doesn't some how make Windows 8 any different. You still can run all your normal work programs like usual.

We have about 1000-1500 WindowsXP computers in our building, and I don't see them taking the leap anytime soon. I think they are waiting for enough of the first floor systems to start mechanically failing before we transition into Windows 7. It's like 450 machines total, but I believe most of the 1500 machines were actually Vista machines which are using XP, and VM stuff.

I agree about the new Start Screen interface being an almost non-issue, although it's funny how Microsoft is basically just trying to nose into all the Bing type interactivity and consumer manipulation...my damn Windows 7 system is now nagging me to load the Bing desktop... WTF... there was a reason the anti-trust people were against MS manipulating the customer's browsing experience I see more time in the courtroom coming.

The compatibility does have some serious issues on games that run in Win7 and Vista.

[Morbid]

Windows 8... Apart from being an unholly mess (Frankenstein OS), it is an evil piece of software for market domination.

[KO Gilligan]

Originally Posted by Morbid

Windows 8... Apart from being an unholly mess (Frankenstein OS), it is an evil piece of software for market domination.

...they will defeat you

PROOF: head on over to Microsoft Games, they have Witcher 2 and Max Payne 3 for $10 each

[Morbid]

Hah, nah... they can't. If it were so simple GfWL would already be successful
But, they are more dangerous and determined this time... with filthy and evil practices.

[ZuljinRaynor]

lol

5char

[8IronBob]

Originally Posted by KO Gilligan

We have about 1000-1500 WindowsXP computers in our building, and I don't see them taking the leap anytime soon. I think they are waiting for enough of the first floor systems to start mechanically failing before we transition into Windows 7. It's like 450 machines total, but I believe most of the 1500 machines were actually Vista machines which are using XP, and VM stuff.

I agree about the new Start Screen interface being an almost non-issue, although it's funny how Microsoft is basically just trying to nose into all the Bing type interactivity and consumer manipulation...my damn Windows 7 system is now nagging me to load the Bing desktop... WTF... there was a reason the anti-trust people were against MS manipulating the customer's browsing experience I see more time in the courtroom coming.

The compatibility does have some serious issues on games that run in Win7 and Vista.

Yeah, I get talked into the Bing Desktop all the time here, too. Tough to give in to their demands. Seems like with Ballmer behind the helm, and Gates retired, this turned Microsoft around for the worse.
I told you that Microsoft would be a flop without Bill Gates behind the helm, and having his magic out there.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Do you people not check what updates you are installing?

[KO Gilligan]

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor

Do you people not check what updates you are installing?

I do - but they are updates and I'm usually not opposed to them. The Bing Desktop is "optional" rather than "important". I let it install the important ones, then manually pick the optional ones.

I was reluctant to allow IE8 for a long time, because back when it came out it was horrible and buggy. Bing wants to add itself as a search option or something (which they don't explain how it effects the interface), and they want to set my homepage to Bing. Really? Pardon me for being hypersensitive, but screw microsoft for expecting me to accept or deny them my homepage. I don't like google toolbar, or having my homepage "improved" - screw them for behaving the same as typical freeware which scrapes up their revenue with optional installation modifications. I don't need anyone to guide me to a search engine, or to suggest a better homepage.

[8IronBob]

Right, I only go with the "Required/Important" Updates on Windows Update. I hardly ever touch anything in the "Optional" Updates at all.

[KO Gilligan]

My son had mastered Windows 8 on his machine. I was amazed by how well he transitioned into it, "throwing" down a window to close a program, and other things that were obviously better suited to a tablet.

I also have a Linux computer in the house he plays with - and there is apps for Linux and easy access to apps for each of the distros.

Little dude made me remove Windows 8 from his machine. He's almost 10, and he just got sick of it being the lamest computer in the house. He likes some of the old Quick Time and Windows games, and there is no Quick Time. Win8 runs the new stuff fine, but so does XP, Vista, and Win7.

I have several licenses for every Windows operating system, and I told him I could set up a dual boot Win7/Linux - but he picked Windows XP/Linux. He wants me to help him make it look better with aero or themes or something...

Whatever - but there is no more Windows 8 in our home.

[8IronBob]

"Throwing" down a window? Hmm... I'd have to try that...being the traditionalist that I am in just clicking on one of the three buttons on the upper-right corner in the window to do whatever.

[NutWrench]

Microsoft is still supporting Windows XP until April 2014. If they support Windows 7 for 10 years, then I'm in no hurry to upgrade Windows 7 unless there's a really compelling reason to do so (i.e. vital hardware that only works under Windows 8).

[KO Gilligan]

It's a tablet thing. Android does something similar....If you run an app in the tablet (METRO) interface, there is no X to close it. Apparently they think they are clever in doing this so they also have a way that it closes itself if Windows sees you aren't using it for awhile Otherwise, the app stays in a suspend open state and occuppies the RAM. On a PC it's not enough to bother you unless you get a bunch of stuff going (it ate your RAM up, but it will close the metro app on it's own when it needs RAM) , but I opened that full view IE and I couldn't close the thing so that it wasn't actually running ... I asked my son, and he threw it down. I'll paste a couple things I found:

By default in Windows 8, when you leave a opened app by switching to another screen, Windows 8 will either suspend or send a app to the background depending if the app is designed to run in the background (ex: email app) or not. If not, the app gets suspended. When a app is supended, think of it as being placed in standby mode. The app will not use any system resources if suspended. A suspended app will still sit in memory (RAM) until that memory is needed by something else in Windows 8 and is then closed automatically to free the memory. While the app is sitting in memory, it will allow the app to be loaded faster the next time you open it since it's already in memory.

There are 3 ways you can close metro apps in the new Windows 8:

1. If you have a touch screen tablet or laptop, touch your finger on the top of the screen and drag it all the way to the bottom. It will minimize and move the app from your way.

2. If you don't have a touch screen but you use a mouse, do the same with the mouse. Point your mouse on the top of the screen and drag it all the way down. When you point the mouse to the top of the screen, you can see the cursor is changing.

3. Press ALT key + F4. This will still work just like the traditional Windows programs.

4. The killer option: use ALT+CTRL+DEL and kill the app using the task manager.

Also, some sources have indicated that the ALT + F4 option may not reliably work to close metro applications in Windows 8. However, so far it works fine, even though Microsoft may change this later releases.

Note that the traditional Windows applications will continue to have close and minimize buttons. You can close them the way you are familiar with.

---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:46 PM ----------

Originally Posted by NutWrench

Microsoft is still supporting Windows XP until April 2014. If they support Windows 7 for 10 years, then I'm in no hurry to upgrade Windows 7 unless there's a really compelling reason to do so (i.e. vital hardware that only works under Windows 8).

Windows 8 is an operating system obviously designed for tablets and integration of other things Microsoft - bing stuff - cloud stuff - app store stuff.

There seems to be no reason for people to switch to it otherwise - other than the fact that it is the latest thing. It's wonky, presumptuous, incompatible with the programs we love, and it has a useless learning curve (did anybody here learn "graffiti" for their palm?)

Having it pre-installed on all the mainstream systems reminds me of the Vista blunder. People bring home their new Laptop and say "What the hell is this?"