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Old 11-17-2012, 08:48 AM   #1
MrFlibble

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Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
I wonder if there's any chance that at least some of the leaked beta versions of Apogee games would get an official blessing for public distribution (seeing as how they can be actually quite easily found online anyway)? To the best of my knowledge, none of those versions allow to play any form of registered levels, only limiting the play to shareware episodes, much like the finished, officially released shareware versions. The betas themselves are invaluable from a historical standpoint, and their official status could easily mean a nice treat for the community.

I'm not aware of all the details but I assume most of the considerations against pre-release distribution that were in effect when the respective games were only developed or just released are now irrelevant. There's hardly a corporate secret to be extracted from such a beta and used by rival developers, and no general secrecy about the nature of a game that had been released 15-20 years ago. The gaming community, on the other hand, is quite interested in the development history of their favourite titles.

After all, IIRC Xenophage had some sort of an official beta released, hadn't it?
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:23 AM   #2
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
What leaked beta versions are you talking about? The only one that I can think of is LameDuke. And we released that.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:37 AM   #3
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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What leaked beta versions are you talking about?
There’s Wacky Kart. The first screen says it’s owned by Copysoft, but I think Copysoft would have a hard time asserting any legal control over it, since it looks nearly identical to Wacky Wheels. But I suspect that 3D Realms wouldn’t want to claim it either. Feel free to prove me wrong, Bryan.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:09 PM   #4
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
Well, there's the leaked beta of Duke Nukem 3D which is very close to v1.0 (v0.99 or somesuch). I think I've read somewhere that it was leaked when a PC with it on the hard disk was submitted to the repair service. Similarly, there's a leaked beta version point ninety-something of Shadow Warrior. Also the Wacky Wheels stuff mentioned above, and maybe something else I can't remember just now.

Would be very nice if those got officially approved as "historical" stuff, much like id Software did with the Doom alpha and beta versions, and also Heretic and Hexen betas.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:44 AM   #5
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
Wacky Kart is not ours there is a section in the Faq about it. Got nothing on that one.

Duke 3D there was a Leak, but then we also released Lame Duke which was from the same time frame as the leak.

And I had forgotten Shadow Warrior's leak. But that was in Alpha if I remember corectally.

Course Joe was the historian.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:08 PM   #6
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
What about the 1.0 versions of Mystic Towers/Wacky Wheels mentioned in the FAQ?
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:12 PM   #7
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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Originally Posted by Bryan3DR View Post
Duke 3D there was a Leak, but then we also released Lame Duke which was from the same time frame as the leak.

And I had forgotten Shadow Warrior's leak. But that was in Alpha if I remember corectally.
Umm, to the best of my knowledge, both leaks I referred to are very close to the released versions 1.0 of respective games. For example, here's a YouTube video of E1L4 from the Duke3D beta v0.99, with a different starting position:
http://youtu.be/a8RH1I85Fl8
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:32 PM   #8
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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What about the 1.0 versions of Mystic Towers/Wacky Wheels mentioned in the FAQ?
Ask and you shall receive. Wacky Wheels 1.0

The copyright screen says it’s shareware, so I don’t think 3D Realms needs to officially release it. Litude found it a while ago. I don’t know if anyone has found Mystic Towers 1.0 yet.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:56 AM   #9
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Exclamation Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
I've seen various other "beta" versions around, like Wolfenstein 3D, Hocus Pocus, Commander Keen, Blood, and Realms of Chaos.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:40 AM   #10
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
There certainly is a beta of Hocus Pocus, with the main character looking differently (no cloak), I've seen a video some time ago on YouTube (here it is: the title screen says v1.0 but the character's sprite is obviously different).

As for Wolfenstein 3-D, the leaked alpha I know of had been compromised by someone who thought it was okay to ruin original files by editing the internal readme to include references to themself (instead of adding a separate readme file).

As for Blood, it has several quite legit beta releases (v0.99x as shown here, and also an earlier v0.91 release was included on a PC Gamer Magazine cover CD (more info here). Apart from that, there exists a rather early alpha that was allegedly leaked from 3DR before the game was sold to Monolith. Once again, YouTube has a number of videos from it, for example, this shows the first level (and here's another one, with much better quality, and it also shows the loading screen with the version number info).
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:01 AM   #11
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
The info in the Apogee FAQ regarding Mystic Towers is false. Version 1.0 was published by Manaccom in Australia (which is where the developers of the title were from), it was not some magazine preview release. I'm assuming that the case is similar in regards to Halloween Harry since that developer was also from Australia, but I haven't found any proof to back that up yet.

There are two beta versions of Hocus Pocus I know of. The dates are almost the same (a three day difference) and they only include the shareware portions.

Also you haven't mentioned the two Raptor beta versions that are out there and the Blake Stone beta. The later Raptor beta and the Blake Stone beta are IIRC the only leaked pre-release versions that also include the components of the registered version.

Rregarding the Wolfenstein 3-D alpha, it was already compromised when he found it and he just compromised it further. I've found the version as it was originally leaked and it already has references to some BBSes added into the help files.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:21 PM   #12
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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There are two beta versions of Hocus Pocus I know of. The dates are almost the same (a three day difference) and they only include the shareware portions.
And both have a different image of the main character?

Quote:
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Rregarding the Wolfenstein 3-D alpha, it was already compromised when he found it and he just compromised it further. I've found the version as it was originally leaked and it already has references to some BBSes added into the help files.
Well, it still ain't no justification for the guy's actions. Does the earlier version have at least some of the original readme text intact? Or maybe some of the date stamps?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #13
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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And both have a different image of the main character?
Both betas use the same version of the main character (the one without the robes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlibble View Post
Well, it still ain't no justification for the guy's actions. Does the earlier version have at least some of the original readme text intact? Or maybe some of the date stamps?
All the text files have been modified even in the original once so the date stamps are not original. The date stamps on the non-text files are original though.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:33 AM   #14
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
The Hocus beta has a whole crop of differences from the final... I know I wrote them up once upon a time, but I have no idea where I'd have saved it. Pretty much every level has layout changes, the first world uses different wall graphics, lava kills you on touch, that sort of thing.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:55 AM   #15
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
If you manage to dig up that list, I would be very interested in seeing it.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:28 AM   #16
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
One thing i'm exactly interested to know is, that what does Duke Nukem 3D beta look like.

The Duke 3D beta i'm talking about is the Duke Nukem 3D beta that Joe Siegler or someone else has and it may look like this as seen in this screenshot

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Old 12-16-2012, 04:09 PM   #17
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh3pdzL7koI at 2:04 there's some dn3d beta gameplay. I wonder who has captured that footage and why it's used in that interview if it was made like two years after the game's release.

I'm interested if there exist beta material from Duke2 and Cosmo.

Has anyone identified those nuke symbols and that blue crescent projectile? Also, that arrow has strange extra colors, not sure if it's a palette error in the gfx ripper.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:14 AM   #18
Mikko_P
Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
I have seen that video. It might be Joe Siegler or someone else, who has captured that footage and maybe it was used in the interview because the game was still in development and was nearly finished, i guess.

What do you think?
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:48 PM   #19
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
Bryan3DR, since you as an official representative of 3D Realms here have shown interest to the topic, may I ask whether any official statement regarding the status of the leaked beta materials is going to be made in foreseeable future?

(Of course I'm hoping that those will get an official blessing for public distribution, maybe followed by the release of further beta materials if those are still available; but any clarification of the problem is welcome.)
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:06 PM   #20
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
What's that?
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:57 AM   #21
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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Originally Posted by MrFlibble View Post
Bryan3DR, may I ask whether any official statement regarding the status of the leaked beta materials is going to be made in foreseeable future?
I dont see that happening. But I will add in that I will bring it up to the people that make the decisions now.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:07 AM   #22
Mikko_P
Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
I want to know what did several Duke Nukem 3D betas look like. I'm not talking about LameDuke or the Duke 3D V0.99 beta, i'm talking about the Duke 3D betas as they appear in the screenshots, like in the slideshows, such as enemies, weapons, HUD, skyboxes, levels etc.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:54 AM   #23
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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Originally Posted by Mikko_P View Post
I want to know what did several Duke Nukem 3D betas look like. I'm not talking about LameDuke or the Duke 3D V0.99 beta, i'm talking about the Duke 3D betas as they appear in the screenshots, like in the slideshows, such as enemies, weapons, HUD, skyboxes, levels etc.
You are not talking about betas then, you are talking about Alphas. When a game goes beta, it is almost done and will pretty much look like the final product (pending major bugs) And I dont think we have what you are wanting even if I could give it to you.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:15 PM   #24
Mikko_P
Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
Uh.... Right, i was talking about alphas.

Perhaps i was interested too much
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:08 AM   #25
Mikko_P
Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
Wait a minute

I was talking about both: Alphas and Betas
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:03 PM   #26
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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I dont see that happening. But I will add in that I will bring it up to the people that make the decisions now.
Thank you so much, you're very kind.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:37 PM   #27
Mikko_P
Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlibble View Post
Bryan3DR, since you as an official representative of 3D Realms here have shown interest to the topic, may I ask whether any official statement regarding the status of the leaked beta materials is going to be made in foreseeable future?

(Of course I'm hoping that those will get an official blessing for public distribution, maybe followed by the release of further beta materials if those are still available; but any clarification of the problem is welcome.)
MrFlibble, can you explain what do you mean by that?
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:24 PM   #28
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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MrFlibble, can you explain what do you mean by that?
I asked whether 3D Realms may officially authorize public distribution of the leaked beta versions. For example, id Software officially released alpha and beta versions of Doom for their historical value.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:28 PM   #29
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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Originally Posted by MrFlibble View Post
I asked whether 3D Realms may officially authorize public distribution of the leaked beta versions. For example, id Software officially released alpha and beta versions of Doom for their historical value.
OK, now i understand what you mean
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:02 PM   #30
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
and how 'bout Duke Nukem 3D then? and with some stuff as they're seen in the slideshow screenshots?
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:26 AM   #31
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
"Apogee/3D Realms games" pretty much covers that. People have asked. Dozens and dozens of times. They PM'd, email, made threads. It's been asked again, and again. Time over, when it was Joe, or George, the answer was always, essentially. "No."
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:57 PM   #32
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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It's been asked again, and again. Time over, when it was Joe, or George, the answer was always, essentially. "No."
I wonder what's the reason behind this policy - except maybe the possibility that there is nothing to make public anymore (although the shot of Joe's collection kind of suggests the opposite).

Even if there is a legal or other reason not to publish beta builds that exist (given that they exist), I'm sure the community would greatly appreciate if at least screenshots and videos of those builds were published (*hint hint*), and that could be accomplished with minimal effort on the part of 3DR.

Unless, of course, there's an obstacle in the form of a forgotten password or an external data protection device that had been lost to the mists of time.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:55 PM   #33
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
It could just a simpler reason. They just don't want to. Which would suck, and be a bit selfish, but I could see it.

There are a number of variant versions of the Duke pig cop that i'd love to be able to examine up close and personal, just for giggles. Plus the variants of HH and Red light District that seemed to exist.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:46 PM   #34
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
There was an early version of E2L8 too. Probably one of the reasons to not distribute the betas since it's a registered game level.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:42 PM   #35
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
Good point. This would be like id Software releasing something from Ultimate Doom as a leak, if you were only allowed to play the first episode, or giving you more weapons and powerups for the shareware version than you were allowed, since you can't have a BFG 9000 or Plasma Rifle in the shareware. Anywho, different game developer, but I catch onto what you're getting at.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:05 AM   #36
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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Good point. This would be like id Software releasing something from Ultimate Doom as a leak, if you were only allowed to play the first episode, or giving you more weapons and powerups for the shareware version than you were allowed, since you can't have a BFG 9000 or Plasma Rifle in the shareware.
As a matter of fact, the Doom press release beta, which had been officially released by id Software for historical reasons (and is available from both the idgames archive (mirror) and from John Romero's website), contains early versions of E2M2 and E3M5, as well as the BFG (not sure about the plasma rifle though).

Conversely, I don't remember any non-shareware content being accessible, or even included, in the leaked beta of Duke Nukem 3D v0.99.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:29 AM   #37
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
Doom v0.5 even has a level from Doom II.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:32 AM   #38
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
Hmm..... It would be very nice to see the early version of Duke 3D's E2L8 and many other levels, that didn't make it to the final version of Duke 3D
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:58 AM   #39
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
What I would REALLY like to see: Tom Hall's and Paul Schuytema's Prey alphas. It would be really cool to discover everything those engines could do and explore the levels that had been made at the time.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:24 AM   #40
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Re: Leaked beta versions of Apogee/3D Realms games
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Doom v0.5 even has a level from Doom II.
What level from Doom II this Doom v0.5 prototype has?
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