Take Two Sues 3D Realms

[Evil Angel]

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

To Infogrames, well actually it went like this:
In 2006 Take Two and Atari(Infogrames new name) re-negotiated that deal so that they didn't have to pay that later $6 Million any longer. Instead paying a bit smaller amount to Infogrames then. Again this was money paid by Take Two to Infogrames not 3DR.

So T2 have actually only paid out $6 million and maybe something in the undisclosed 2007 deal. Jesus H Christ. Wha's the matter with them? I know the development has been a total mess but $6 million for the publishing rights to DNF? That's it?!

The only way this makes sense is that making $60 million plus is not enough for them and they want to screw the whole IP out of 3DR because they know it will be worth much more in the long run.

This happens time after time to smaller studios and now maybe 3DR has fallen prey to the publishers. Something seriously needs to change with the whole system around game development.

[Thewho]

Actually they renegotiated the deal to $4.25M if it was paid right away instead of on completion, so they ended up paying $6M + $4.25M instead of $12M to Infogrames.

[Lethe]

Originally Posted by peoplessi

How exactly have they treated their fans, us? What would have you done? You don't know no more than I do about what happened during DNFs development, nor what is happening now. You assume, that's the key here, you don't know.

The same is with you, so what are you trying to prove me? You assume, I assume, the rest of the forum assumes. What makes you believe that you have some exclusive right to do so, and to tell me that I'm trolling for doing the same thing?

[Onebullit]

Originally Posted by dan2091

"See, we're a company of simple tastes. we like game franchises... and acquisition sprees... and suing! Do you know what all of these things have in common? They're lucrative! You see, nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even if the plan is horrifying. If we told people that our company was going to get taken over by EA, or that we were told to shut the f*ck up, nobody would panic. Because it's all part of the plan. But tell people that one tiny little game is not going to be released and everyone loses their minds!"

Hahaha.....
Nice

[Drazula]

My two cents on the events of the last week or so:

- Yes, Take 2 had to sue. I thought that was obvious the day 3DR closed up. It is NOT relevant whether Take 2 paid Infogrames or 3DR (well maybe to those two). The point is they paid $12 million for nothing. I could throw a brick through their window and it would be more valuable than what they got from 3DR. Imagine paying $12 million for it (I'll let them deduct the price of a new window ).

- I didn't stay here all these years waiting for DNF. It's a great place to talk about games and meet good people. Thank you Joe.

- I feel bad for the people who worked so hard at 3DR. I hope all of them find new work.

- I don't feel bad about not getting DNF. Why is everyone so angry about it? There are other games to play. In the grand scheme of things, not being able to play a game I haven't even bought yet is no reason to get upset.

[IceColdDuke]

Originally Posted by Drazula

My two cents on the events of the last week or so:

- Yes, Take 2 had to sue. I thought that was obvious the day 3DR closed up. It is NOT relevant whether Take 2 paid Infogrames or 3DR (well maybe to those two). The point is they paid $12 million for nothing. I could throw a brick through their window and it would be more valuable than what they got from 3DR. Imagine paying $12 million for it (I'll let them deduct the price of a new window ).

- I didn't stay here all these years waiting for DNF. It's a great place to talk about games and meet good people. Thank you Joe.

- I feel bad for the people who worked so hard at 3DR. I hope all of them find new work.

- I don't feel bad about not getting DNF. Why is everyone so angry about it? There are other games to play. In the grand scheme of things, not being able to play a game I haven't even bought yet is no reason to get upset.

I agree .

[Mr.Deviance]

Originally Posted by IceColdDuke

I agree .

I do not agree!

[Onebullit]

This is like .... david vs GOLIATH or kimbo vs FEDOR
I think 3DR will get spanked on this one.
If Take2 knew they didn't have a chance, why would they sue 3DR ?

[fast-1]

* 1995 – Terminal Velocity – Terminal Reality
* 1997 – Duke Nukem 64 – Eurocom
* 1997 – Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown – Aardvark Software
* 1998 – Duke Nukem: Time to Kill – N-Space
* 1999 – Duke Nukem: Zero Hour – Eurocom
* 1999 – Duke Nukem (Game Boy Color) – Torus Games
* 2000 – Duke Nukem: Land of the Babes – N-Space
* 2001 – Max Payne – Remedy Entertainment
* 2002 – Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project – ARUSH Entertainment/Sunstorm Interactive
* 2003 – Duke Nukem Advance – Torus Games
* 2003 – Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne – Remedy Entertainment
* 2004 – Duke Nukem Mobile – Machine Works Northwest/Tapwave
* 2005 – Duke Nukem Mobile II: Bikini Project – Machine Works Northwest
* 2005 – Duke Nukem Mobile 3D – Machine Works Northwest
* 2006 – Prey – Human Head Studios
* 2008 – Duke Nukem 3D (Xbox Live Arcade)

And Take 2 are suing for what money ? 3D Realms helped produce these so who did the producing Take 2.

[JobivanHiob]

The Judge is called Gammaman?

and why it was corrected to "Ramas"?

the drawn lines etc...who wrote it on these official papers?

This all looks kinda made up.

[NonSequitur]

Originally Posted by JobivanHiob

This all looks kinda made up.

That's the justice system for ya.

[unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Drazula

- Yes, Take 2 had to sue. I thought that was obvious the day 3DR closed up. It is NOT relevant whether Take 2 paid Infogrames or 3DR (well maybe to those two). The point is they paid $12 million for nothing. I could throw a brick through their window and it would be more valuable than what they got from 3DR. Imagine paying $12 million for it (I'll let them deduct the price of a new window ).

Scott Miller said :

We didn't get a penny of that money ($12 million). This, along with so much else, is 100% spin, being eaten up by those who have no clue whatsoever. But, we cannot talk yet. We will, soon..

[Denz]

Originally Posted by unforgiven

Scott Miller said :

We didn't get a penny of that money ($12 million). This, along with so much else, is 100% spin, being eaten up by those who have no clue whatsoever. But, we cannot talk yet. We will, soon..

link please

[X-Vector]

Originally Posted by Drazula

I don't feel bad about not getting DNF.

I don't feel that disappointed either, but I would have if this had happened seven years ago.

I guess after all this time that DNF had become more an abstraction than a real game for me and the 2007-2008 media and the leaked stuff don't do it for me.
As I said before over at Duke4, Scott Alden's post at Shacknews mirrors my feelings regarding the DNF project, i.e. that it went downhill after the restart and engine switch in 2002.

[NonSequitur]

Originally Posted by JobivanHiob

The Judge is called Gammaman?

Justice Ira Gammerman. Here's a NY Times article about him.

In Court, He's Judge, Lawyer and Director

The guy is apparently 81 years old, or thereabouts. Maybe they decided to put another younger judge on the case because it's about videogames... or maybe the guy turned to dust and got carried away by a strong wind because he's so ancient.

[Onebullit]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58651

[dan2091]

Originally Posted by Tualmasok

Yeah, um, you dick?! It's not some fantasy story where someone bad is picking on someone good - A legally binding contract exists. If you got ****** in the ass the same way Take 2 did, would you sit back and go "Hmmm... I love being pounded in the ass and made to look stupid"?

Oh! You would? Then **** off and die. No one will miss you.

Easy man, it was a joke, I didn't mean it .

I feel bad because of 3D Realms being sued. You're right, it's not about someone good and someone bad. There's a contract that is suppose to be fulfilled and I get your point when you say that I, as Take Two, should be angry at 3DR because they're not releasing the game.

But life being the way it is now, everyone look out at their own interest. You see, I don't know what T2 really wants. But I don't believe that they want the game released because they're angry fans or something like that.

If they really care about 3D Realms and Duke Forever completition, they'd have given the money to 3D Realms in the first place and then getting back the money they invested with the game's incoming.

[unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Denz

link please

http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=...nchor_19924013

[NonSequitur]

Originally Posted by dan2091

If they really care about 3D Realms and Duke Forever completition, they'd have given the money to 3D Realms in the first place and then getting back the money they invested with the game's incoming.

What is this flowery "care about 3D Realms" crap? Take 2 cares about one thing - money. They're a friggin' corporation. What they're doing now is what they and their team of lawyers think will net them the most money in the long run.

[dan2091]

You're right. As I said before "IF they'd care about 3D Realms and Duke Forever completition, they'd have given the money to 3D Realms, then they could have gotten the money they invested back with the game's incoming." So, as they don't care at all about them, they sue them. It's all 'bout money, as you said.

[IwantMORE]

If they only have a publishing contract, can they really ask for the source/object code?

Anyone here good on American law?

[dan2091]

Originally Posted by Onebullit

Hahaha.....
Nice

Glad you get it .. .

Edit-

Originally Posted by IwantMORE

If they only have a publishing contract, can they really ask for the source/object code?

Anyone here good on American law?

It's not because they're the publishers, but because of the money they have given to 3D Realms to fund the game a lot of time ago that they're demanding them right now with 12 millions, right? right.. 12 millions being the exact quantity they gave to them, without interests (That's what I get, so correct me if I'm mistaken).

With that said, I'm not exactly sure, but if T2 wins this one, 3D Realms will have to pay them back the money T2 is asking for. If they don't have the money they'll have to pay them with something worth those 12 millions dollars. Say, not necessarily the Duke Nukem IP but I believe that well.. yeah, the current DNF build is worth those 12 millions dollars.

The Duke Nukem IP worths much more than 12 millions...

[wayskobfssae]

Originally Posted by Tualmasok

I don't think Take 2 would waste the amount of money that comes with litigation if they didn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Not necessarily true. T2 can bet on 3DR not having enough money to hire an equally-mighty team of $1000/hr lawyers. And considering 3DR just laid everyone off, that sounds like a pretty sound bet.

"Duke Nukem Forever" may look good on paper, but I don't think Take 2 cares whether they get the game or not. This is likely what their plan is:

1. Sue 3DR and force George to finish DN4E.
2. 3DR can't finish DN4E because they have no funding.
3. T2 says "Fine, if you can't give us what we're owed, then we deserve some form of compensation. Pay us back."
4. 3DR can't pay them back, again, because they have no funding.
5. T2 says "Fine, if you can't give us money, then give us the Duke franchise."
6. T2 gets the Duke Franchise, which in the long-run is far more financially advantageous than getting one completed game, no matter how good the game is.

It looks like a whine on paper, and that's what the court will see. T2 may technically be the victim since they lost a game, but as far as the intent of the lawsuit goes, they're not the victim. They're not after compensation. They smell an opportunity worth far more than whatever they lost on funding DN4E (if they actually funded it at all).

[unforgiven]

[wayskobfssae]

Originally Posted by unforgiven

http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=...nchor_19924013

Mmkay... there's no quote from George there about not getting a penny of the 12-mil.

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Pycine

On behalf? My interpretation is that they paid somebody else 12 million dollars for a contract they THOUGHT would be worth more than that. That's their gamble, and 3D Realms has little to do with that. As with any business decision, there's risk in buying a contract like that.

Exactly. It's even strange that people think 3drealms ows TT $12 milion because TT bought these rights. Think about it.

If a farmer gives somebody the right to eat a apple from his tree, which is due next fall, for $1,- And before the apple is done the somebody sells this right for the apple to another for $100,- Now a major apple flu is coming and the farmers apples are all gone. He cannot give the apple to the guy with the 'firts to eat apple' right.... Does the farmer now have to pay $100,- ?

[unforgiven]

Originally Posted by wayskobfssae

Mmkay... there's no quote from George there about not getting a penny of the 12-mil.

Scroll Down , check the comments :

>>> Did Take Two give 3DR that $12 million for development <<<

By: ScottMi11er
No. We didn't get a penny of that money. This, along with so much else, is 100% spin, being eaten up by those who have no clue whatsoever. But, we cannot talk yet. We will, soon...

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by wayskobfssae

Mmkay... there's no quote from George there about not getting a penny of the 12-mil.

Look for Scott Mi11er

[wayskobfssae]

Originally Posted by Swetsenegger

Look for Scott Mi11er

Hmm... ok... he doesn't have time to post an official response on the 3DR site, or to get that quoted in the actual article, but he has time to bicker on shacknews discussions? 99.9% chance that isn't really him.

[Alhexx]

New fuel for the speculation engine, injected by Scott Miller:

>>> Anyone in this thread bashing Take 2 doesn't understand what the hell happened. <<<

And I suppose you do?

- Edit -

Originally Posted by wayskobfssae

Hmm... ok... he doesn't have time to post an official response on the 3DR site, or to get that quoted in the actual article, but he has time to bicker on shacknews discussions? 99.9% chance that isn't really him.

Well, shacknews seems to be convinced that this actually is Scott Miller.

[Amakou]

Originally Posted by wayskobfssae

Hmm... ok... he doesn't have time to post an official response on the 3DR site, or to get that quoted in the actual article, but he has time to bicker on shacknews discussions? 99.9% chance that isn't really him.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58651

~Amakou~

[Jiminator]

bunches of meaningless statements. both may technically be accurate based on the way which companies signed the original contracts. the only way to know - follow the money trail.

[v.o]

ok ppl, we have to Boykott Take2 ! ...

[IwantMORE]

Take-Two rep..
"Hi, would you like to sell us your game, we would like to publish it..."
Small developer
"Er no thanks, if we fail to ship you will ship us off to court and take all our money!"

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by Denz

link please

DNF was always funded by 3DRealms :P thats why you see that developers run the company basically with no corporate pressure or bs because they owe nobody nothing

[Jiminator]

people don't sign contracts for the hell of it. a contract implies that you receive something and in turn you have to deliver something, and it is legally binding and enforceable in court. there might be issues about who signed what and who owned who, but they will eventually get cleared up in court.

[Onebullit]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

DNF was always funded by 3DRealms :P thats why you see that developers run the company basically with no corporate pressure or bs because they owe nobody nothing

Are you saying that Take is lying about the 12$?
I don't thnk so.
I have red this before, Take 2 payed 3DR 10 Mil $ to be able to publish the game. I will look if i can find the magazine where i red about it, scan and upload here but....the magazine is in Dutch anyway, you wouldn't undersand it.

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Jiminator

people don't sign contracts for the hell of it. a contract implies that you receive something and in turn you have to deliver something, and it is legally binding and enforceable in court. there might be issues about who signed what and who owned who, but they will eventually get cleared up in court.

It's even strange that people think 3drealms ows TT $12 milion because TT bought these rights. Think about it.

If a farmer gives somebody the right to eat a apple from his tree, which is due next fall, for $1,- And before the apple is done the somebody sells this right for the apple to another for $100,- Now a major apple flu is coming and the farmers apples are all gone. He cannot give the apple to the guy with the 'firts to eat apple' right.... Does the farmer now have to pay $100,- ?

So.... which millions does TT think to claim?

[Kristian Joensen]

They certainly did pay that money, but NOT to 3D Realms but Infogrames/Atari.

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by Onebullit

Are you saying that Take is lying about the 12$?
I don't thnk so.
I have red this before, Take 2 payed 3DR 10 Mil $ to be able to publish the game. I will look if i can find the magazine where i red about it, scan and upload here but....the magazine is in Dutch anyway, you wouldn't undersand it.

You didnt listen to what I had said man

Publishers PAY for the right to PUBLISH meaning what you buy and comes in a box is PUBLISH, its like a book getting written, so in this case 3DRealms said we will LET you make our game for X amount of dollars. Unless the contract includes a TIME WHEN then no

BTW I can understand Dutch :P

In court they have a minor issue, if they needed money to finish the product, and publisher said goto hell, then the company cant finish its like cornering/taking advantage of the situation. 3Drealms isnt considered DONE, its on hold :P

Also in 2000??????? GOD owned the rights i thought in 2001 and was BOUGHT by take two