Prey Weekly Update #24

[bummerman]

I rarely have lag issues and if I do I leave after announcing that the server can't handle the load it is trying to serve.There are tons of good servers out there!!!The "no time span" weapon switch was a BIG mistake and never should have happened; not including smaller 4 ppl or less maps was a big mistake...not having a convenient way to edit out maps such as the shuttle maps from the server map cycle is a mistake...generally, I like the maps that are there,Why worry about mp? It keeps the game in the spotlight long after the interest in playing the sp is gone...if it is successful that is...charging for new content might work down the road if the product has proved successful, this game hasn't....sadly what i think is ultimately happening as the gaming industry matures, the question that is taking priority more and more,"If I do this thing, will I be properly compensated?",not, "How can I make the best game possible."It's all part of our culture really, at least in the U.S. A heavy emphasis on monetary gain and a willingness to go to any length to achieve it.or hold back unless you can get it ...A baseball player getting 10 million a year for playing the sport he loves,not feeling blessed but feeling slighted that the peer on his team got a better deal than him!!Microsoft, the wonderful co. that makes me spend an hour reactivating "windows" just cause I put a new video card in my computer, has figured out a way to charge gamers for things they never paid for before.Pay for the priviledge to play your x-box 360 game on-line,automatically charge for new content added; set up a system under Vista where x-box 360 users can play against pc users coincidentally on x-box live at $15.00 a month.....greed entices, oh....maybe we can do that to!!!!Where's the love ppl!!!!!Where's the love!!!!!!What happened to giving a person more than he was expecting because you are passionate about something...Where's the love!!!

[ZaphodB]

*hugs Bummerman*
We love you dude

[raikoujin]

I for one refuse to pay extra for Prey maps or extra 'content',the sp game was short,and the mp was lacking in overall content,any content tacked on at this point should be given over to the communtiy free of charge,PERIOD.

[KamisoriX]

Right on brother, right on...

[CameO73]

Originally Posted by bummerman

What happened to giving a person more than he was expecting because you are passionate about something...Where's the love!!!

I couldn't agree more. Problem is that that's up to 2K (the $-guys) and not 3DR/HH/Venom (the passionate guys). So, the love for the game gets stuck between two lovers ($ vs passion). And we're getting the short end of the stick.

[bummerman]

Originally Posted by CameO73

I couldn't agree more. Problem is that that's up to 2K (the $-guys) and not 3DR/HH/Venom (the passionate guys). So, the love for the game gets stuck between two lovers ($ vs passion). And we're getting the short end of the stick.

I assume 2kgames are the developers of MPrey; if so,releasing the mprey with the weapons switch exploit needs rectifying and compensating for...now that I think of it, are they equivalent to E.A. and Activision in this process?...that was never an issue stated publicly by Epic or Id, when they released new content!!

[Orochi Avlis]

Originally Posted by bummerman

I assume 2kgames are the developers of MPrey; if so,releasing the mprey with the weapons switch exploit needs rectifying and compensating for...now that I think of it, are they equivalent to E.A. and Activision in this process?...that was never an issue stated publicly by Epic or Id, when they released new content!!

Anything to do with distributing Prey (or it's content) has to go through 2K. It's part of the contract.
2K did not develop Prey's MP.

[avatar_58]

Some people here are really uninformed as to how games are developed and who decides what. Instead of spouting off your mouths at 3DR, why not do some research first?

[bummerman]

you're right, I should go to 2k games website and post on their forum.......darn, they don't have one...and as that great stock broker from the sky once said,"I may be wrong,but I'm never wrong long!"

[Zegraphoob]

Originally Posted by Orochi Avlis

Anything to do with distributing Prey (or it's content) has to go through 2K. It's part of the contract.
2K did not develop Prey's MP.

For what reason did 3DR allow 2K to make such decisions? That should be the first question we have to take under the magnifying glass. I have not heard much of 3DR until Prey got announced, but I have always seen them as independant developers. They pay for the development of their own games, so why did they agree to make 2K decide about such items? It is not like they would not find publisher if they did not agree to make them decide about such items, publishers know an IP like Prey makes money, just like EA knew an IP like Half-Life makes money, and Valve decides basically everything.

Maybe 3DR lets 2K decide because they want to charge us, but don't want to receive the heat of the fire?

Whatever the reason, anyone who thinks I am going to pay for extra multiplayer maps of a game that no one plays needs to attend some mathematics classes, to improve their ability to think logically.

[avatar_58]

3DRealms is just the producer of Prey, they lent ideas and time to the development as well as the IP. Beyond that they don't do anything else.

Do you not know how publishing works? Let 2kgames do as they please, and don't buy the pack if it doesn't appeal to you. Its as simple as that.

Also - EA does not publish HL2, they simply package it for retailers. There is no real publisher for valve's games and therefore they do make all the decisions.

[1031982]

Ok, I have the 360 version and I know for a fact that if 2K wanted, they could have the content for free. At times, it's fine to charge for content. IMO, Oblivion was one of those things because it was a complete game, and the add-ons were simply that with the exception of Vials Layer. But, something like Prey should have at least the maps free. Add on like 5 maps for free to make it more complete. Character models, eh, they have the main people in there, and I dont see an issue with paying for more. But, on both the PC and 360, the map pack should be free because they really got cut down. 2K should really come here and see these topics, they would realize that with the majority of the people here saying to add their stuff for free, they would make a GREAT mistake charging for it.
Over all, don't get me wrong I would LOVE to get a lot of that stuff for free on a lot of games, but it's a business. Now, I know people who won't buy Prey simply because of the lack of MP maps. So, if hey added more maps for free, they would get more people buying the game, making a lot more money then selling the maps initially. Now, later on they can charge for add-ons all they want when the game has a more complete feeling to it. But, they have to have reasonable prices. On Oblivion, it was like the prices were reversed!
I LOVE Prey, but I haven't played it because of the map limitation. I could almost care less about character models as they have a decent amount already.

Joe Siegler, I propose that you try to have people from 2K Games look at these forms to see what the gamers are saying. If anything ask people what reasonable prices they would pay for LATER add-on content.

[Orochi Avlis]

Originally Posted by Zegraphoob

For what reason did 3DR allow 2K to make such decisions? That should be the first question we have to take under the magnifying glass.

2K is a publisher, correct? 3DR and HH want to release a retail product. 2K has the resources necessary to let such a thing happen. So for it to happen, certain stipulations have to be given up in order for the publisher to release your game.
Remember, publishers hold most (or all) of the cards.

I have not heard much of 3DR until Prey got announced, but I have always seen them as independant developers. They pay for the development of their own games, so why did they agree to make 2K decide about such items?

True, 3DR finances their own projects, but they are not a publisher. They still need somebody to do the advertising and distributing.

It is not like they would not find publisher if they did not agree to make them decide about such items, publishers know an IP like Prey makes money, just like EA knew an IP like Half-Life makes money, and Valve decides basically everything.

3DR is still under contract with 2K for DNF. So why go to another publisher when you already have push within the current one?
And no, publishers resist new IP ideas because it's a big risk. Nobody knew if it was going to be a finanical success. Nobody. They can predict, or make educated guesses, but it's down to the consumers ultimately.

Maybe 3DR lets 2K decide because they want to charge us, but don't want to receive the heat of the fire?

Maybe frogs will rain from the sky and our first newborns will die?

Whatever the reason, anyone who thinks I am going to pay for extra multiplayer maps of a game that no one plays needs to attend some mathematics classes, to improve their ability to think logically.

But first you need to attend some business classes to know how the gaming industry works before you go on a rant.

[bummerman]

Whatever they decide, they need to make the "new content" part of the patch for reasons previously stated

[Zegraphoob]

Originally Posted by Orochi Avlis

2K is a publisher, correct? 3DR and HH want to release a retail product. 2K has the resources necessary to let such a thing happen. So for it to happen, certain stipulations have to be given up in order for the publisher to release your game.
Remember, publishers hold most (or all) of the cards.

Not if you are a famous gaming company. Id Software for example decides what they want: They decide when they will release patches, they decide new multiplayer maps will be for free, and so forth.

Originally Posted by Orochi Avlis

3DR is still under contract with 2K for DNF. So why go to another publisher when you already have push within the current one?

Because another publisher doesn't charge the gamers for multiplayer maps, maybe? If 3D Realms does not care about that, they also deserve the heat of the fire as much as 2K does.

Originally Posted by Orochi Avlis

And no, publishers resist new IP ideas because it's a big risk. Nobody knew if it was going to be a finanical success. Nobody. They can predict, or make educated guesses, but it's down to the consumers ultimately.

With new IPs that do experimenting things, that is true, but Prey has been an IP before, in 1998, and many people were disappointed it got cancelled. Also, the E3 trailers of the current incarnation of Prey were received well and there were advertentions all over gaming websites with many people downloading trailer and the demo compared to other games.

Originally Posted by Orochi Avlis

Maybe frogs will rain from the sky and our first newborns will die?

You can say what you want, but that did happen

Originally Posted by Orochi Avlis

But first you need to attend some business classes to know how the gaming industry works before you go on a rant.

Oops! I made a point against your favourite gaming company and now I am getting personal attacks. Why do you think I have no idea how the system works? Because I disagree with your point of view?

Really, 3D Realms has the means to convince 2K if they disagree with the commercial content. All they have to do is point at the success of FEAR (free multiplayer) and Quake 4 (free multiplayer map packs).

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by Zegraphoob

Really, 3D Realms has the means to convince 2K if they disagree with the commercial content. All they have to do is point at the success of FEAR (free multiplayer) and Quake 4 (free multiplayer map packs).

Why have you read their contracts and legal forms? Don't open your mouth unless you have facts because it makes you look like a naive fool.

Joe Siegler (read- works at the company) already stated its out of their hands and 2kgames has the final say. End of Story.

[Zegraphoob]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Why have you read their contracts and legal forms? Don't open your mouth unless you have facts because it makes you look like a naive fool.

Joe Siegler (read- works at the company) already stated its out of their hands and 2kgames has the final say. End of Story.

What do contracts have to do with this? It is not because 2K is the boss on paper, that 3DR will go to prison if they do a recommendation.
And no, it's not because 2K has the final say, that it is the end of the story. You have to look at how come it is out of their hands, and especially if they are trying to convince 2K to not charge for the content.

[bummerman]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Why have you read their contracts and legal forms? Don't open your mouth unless you have facts because it makes you look like a naive fool.

Joe Siegler (read- works at the company) already stated its out of their hands and 2kgames has the final say. End of Story.

If you are politically aware,you should know that what is often handed out for "public consumption" frequently has little to do with what is really happening.I don't think any of us know the details of the contract and Joe , later, did say they have some influence in the matter


Quote "Again, remember, the decision to do that is not made, and is up to 2K. Ultimately we have some influence, but it is their decision, I believe. How about crucifying us if that decision is actually made, eh?
__________________
Joe Siegler, Webmaster - 3D Realms"

I,actually think they wanted to see what kind of reaction they would get to the fee idea...remember, 2 kgames doesn't lose any money if the patch is free and they are not performing any labor to get it out there

[Orochi Avlis]

Originally Posted by Zegraphoob

Not if you are a famous gaming company. Id Software for example decides what they want: They decide when they will release patches, they decide new multiplayer maps will be for free, and so forth.

Good job at not dismissing my point.

Because another publisher doesn't charge the gamers for multiplayer maps, maybe? If 3D Realms does not care about that, they also deserve the heat of the fire as much as 2K does.

*cough*CoD 2*cough*

With new IPs that do experimenting things, that is true, but Prey has been an IP before, in 1998, and many people were disappointed it got cancelled. Also, the E3 trailers of the current incarnation of Prey were received well and there were advertentions all over gaming websites with many people downloading trailer and the demo compared to other games.

Totally irrelevant. Rarely ever does stuff like that affect a publishers decision.
Sam and Max 2 was cancelled and remains cancelled despite the huge outcry from gamers.
It's up to the publishers to ultimately decide a game's fate.
Tim Schafer had to downplay several ideas for the game Psychonauts because the publishers weren't interested in his fresh ideas.

Oops! I made a point against your favourite gaming company and now I am getting personal attacks. Why do you think I have no idea how the system works? Because I disagree with your point of view?

It's quite obvious you don't know how it works, hence why I said it.
It's not about disagreeing with me, I wasn't stating opinion.

Really, 3D Realms has the means to convince 2K if they disagree with the commercial content. All they have to do is point at the success of FEAR (free multiplayer) and Quake 4 (free multiplayer map packs).

Sigh...
Because Joe saying it was out of their hands wasn't indication enough they have no influence what-so-ever with the pricing.

What do contracts have to do with this? It is not because 2K is the boss on paper, that 3DR will go to prison if they do a recommendation.
And no, it's not because 2K has the final say, that it is the end of the story. You have to look at how come it is out of their hands, and especially if they are trying to convince 2K to not charge for the content.

Here you go again just proving my point.

[bummerman]

"Sigh...
Because Joe saying it was out of their hands wasn't indication enough they have no influence what-so-ever with the pricing."quote from Arochi

Quote "Again, remember, the decision to do that is not made, and is up to 2K. Ultimately we have some influence, but it is their decision, I believe. How about crucifying us if that decision is actually made, eh?
__________________
Joe Siegler, Webmaster - 3D Realms"


What exactly he means by "some influence" is, at best, unclear

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by bummerman

What exactly he means by "some influence" is, at best, unclear

Joe doesn't use cryptic responses, I've seen enough posts to know that. What he said is what he meant. Therefore it is up to 2kgames. This isn't an arguement nor is it opinion, he stated a fact.

Really unless you love to bicker there is nothing left to say. If you hate the decision, take it up with 2kgames or don't buy the pack. Its really that simple.

[bummerman]

the decision hasn't been made public, and to tell you the truth, until the decision becomes clear ,I enjoy speculating and , apparently, a lot of other ppl do to, andI don't appreciate you acting like you are the final answer on everything , I simply pointed out that what 3drealms airs publicly with their fan base may or may not be "a fact" as you call it.....and, I would say, it would be better for 3dr not to bring controversial ideas to our attention and leave us hanging if they prefer to avoid speculation... and..finally..I would take your remarks more seriously if you had continued to show interest in the mp retail release but as is, you haven't, which may explain your "cut and dried" approach to the whole issue...oh, and if I want your advice as to what my next course of action should be, I'll PM you

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by bummerman

the decision hasn't been made public, and to tell you the truth, until the decision becomes clear ,I enjoy speculating and , apparently, a lot of other ppl do to, andI don't appreciate you acting like you are the final answer on everything , I simply pointed out that what 3drealms airs publicly with their fan base may or may not be "a fact" as you call it.....and, I would say, it would be better for 3dr not to bring controversial ideas to our attention and leave us hanging if they prefer to avoid speculation... and..finally..I would take your remarks more seriously if you had continued to show interest in the mp retail release but as is, you haven't, which may explain your "cut and dried" approach to the whole issue...oh, and if I want your advice as to what my next course of action should be, I'll PM you

Indeed. There's nothing left to be discussed here. The decision hasn't been made and announced yet, so until it is, threads consisting of FUD won't help anything.

Once we announce something and there's something real to say, then we can continue. For now this conversation is just going around in circles.

[Rizlaboy]

Is it true that the reason there will be no "new content" is because we will have to pay extra for new maps\game types etc? Will we be charged for new stuff??
I think I read this somewhere...maybe it was just the Xbox 360 version...

[bummerman]

My personal feelings are that there is no way that we'll be charged for "new content". It just adds too much complication to an already disturbing MP picture....the last "official answer" was,"not sure."

[Orochi Avlis]

Originally Posted by Rizlaboy

Is it true that the reason there will be no "new content" is because we will have to pay extra for new maps\game types etc? Will we be charged for new stuff??
I think I read this somewhere...maybe it was just the Xbox 360 version...

The 360 extra content will have the a price tag on it, as for the PC version, we don't know yet. Neither does 3DR. It's up to Take 2 to decide whether they'll charge for it or not.

[ZuljinRaynor]

I think the PC version of Prey is going to take the Quake 4 route.

[bummerman]

I'm not a "developer" but it seems to me that if a mp component is included with the game,two or three ppl would be designated to maintain and improve that part, regardless of what's going on with Prey II, as a full time job. I know a modder who did some "unbelievable things with Doom 3 and this, all in his spare time. A lot of stuff that you would have believed were , clearly, the responsibility of "Id" to improve,... As an ex., one thing fixed by him was a missing ammo count in the hud that happened when a player took the gun off the screen.The ammo count was actually placed on the rapid fire weapons. You would have thought the developer would have taken responsibility for this....but , back to my main point, a couple of creative knowledgable ppl can do enormous things for the mp component if backed by the developer

[bummerman]

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor

I think the PC version of Prey is going to take the Quake 4 route.

Why, what happened to it?

[ZuljinRaynor]

Originally Posted by bummerman

Why, what happened to it?

They periodically release patches and new content for free on the PC.

[Orochi Avlis]

Originally Posted by bummerman

I'm not a "developer" but it seems to me that if a mp component is included with the game,two or three ppl would be designated to maintain and improve that part, regardless of what's going on with Prey II, as a full time job.

Jesus Christ, not this discussion again.
It's not about assigning people to do full time MP expansions, but contracts with the publisher.

As an ex., one thing fixed by him was a missing ammo count in the hud that happened when a player took the gun off the screen.The ammo count was actually placed on the rapid fire weapons. You would have thought the developer would have taken responsibility for this....but

Screens?
I don't remember anything like that. If it did happen, it was probably an oversight. Little things are missed, it happens.

I think the PC version of Prey is going to take the Quake 4 route.

I would like that.

[Joe Siegler]

I moved some posts into here about the "charging for content" issue, as it's already been discussed, and there's no need to bring it up again in another thread. Thank you.