Why not put the HRP up?

[CarlosRP]

This could it be a relly good idea for the people that are very noticed on graphics...
Also this could increase the amount of people that plays DUKE 3D in XBLA...

comments plz..

[ZuljinRaynor]

Not going to happen.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by CarlosRP

This could it be a relly good idea for the people that are very noticed on graphics...
Also this could increase the amount of people that plays DUKE 3D in XBLA...

We didn't do that.

[oak man]

Then 3DR would be makin' money off of a group of hard working fan's project.

Its a cool idea, but not so cool to those who actually made the HRP.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by oak man

Then 3DR would be makin' money off of a group of hard working fan's project.

Its a cool idea, but not so cool to those who actually made the HRP.

I think according to the legality of the thing, I think we could do that, but I doubt we'd be interested in releasing fan work under the 3DR banner like that.

[oak man]

I'm in la la land. Totally forgot about the legal side

[CarlosRP]

Or maybe an option when you play the game...
like in the PC version

in the legal thing.. you just ask for permission to te ones of the HRP creators

but I still think that this is a good idea, the one of putting the HRP as option in the game menu, or something like that, or a place where its says "Upgrade to High Resolution Pack" things like that... understand me?

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by CarlosRP

in the legal thing.. you just ask for permission to te ones of the HRP creators

My point is that I don't think we need to ask, given the way it was released, but I admit I haven't looked at it in awhile.

but I still think that this is a good idea, the one of putting the HRP as option in the game menu, or something like that, or a place where its says "Upgrade to High Resolution Pack" things like that... understand me?

Again, I can't see this happening.

[hammer oz]

the hrp sucks anyway pesonnally i just like sticking to the old pixel graphics becuase it brings back the memories others would agree to

EDIT ok ill admit the hrp is ok but its not excactly my cup of tea

[Metal Boss]

HRP does not suck. Allot of good effort was put into that. I prefer the original graphics though.

[Amakou]

If they did, the multiplayer would have to be split into HRP and non-HRP....it wouldn't be fair to both sides otherwise.

~Amakou~

[Joe Siegler]

Originally Posted by hammer oz

the hrp sucks anyway pesonnally i just like sticking to the old pixel graphics becuase it brings back the memories others would agree to

I wouldn't say it SUCKS. I personally do not care for it, becaus the feel of the game is all wrong with it in there. As was said, a lot of work did go into it, I just personally don't like it. Doesn't mean it SUCKS, though.

Originally Posted by Amakou

If they did, the multiplayer would have to be split into HRP and non-HRP....it wouldn't be fair to both sides otherwise.

I never thought of that issue. Good point.

[Parkar]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

I think according to the legality of the thing, I think we could do that, but I doubt we'd be interested in releasing fan work under the 3DR banner like that.

The logical answer to the legality thing should be that you could just do it. My guess is it would be a fairly messy deal to figure out all the legal aspects. Releasing it would also mean you would probably want some kind of contract with the people who did it since you are more or less responsible for the content of it even if you don't have to ask. Wouldn't be to much fun it turns out some stuff is copyrighted material and 3DR is held responsible for that. All in all it would probably just a big mess trying to make it happen I think.

Originally Posted by CarlosRP

Or maybe an option when you play the game...
like in the PC version

in the legal thing.. you just ask for permission to te ones of the HRP creators

but I still think that this is a good idea, the one of putting the HRP as option in the game menu, or something like that, or a place where its says "Upgrade to High Resolution Pack" things like that... understand me?

Tracking down everyone would be quiet a bit of work. I have done this and since there are no money involved I settled with just reaching almost everyone. When doing something commercial you would really want to be sure to cover everyone. Assuming of course you would even need to. In other words you can either do it without asking or it may as well be to much work asking everyone.

If it was done by like a small and organised team it would make a lot more sense from legal and otherwise practical point of view. Kinda like how EPIC has released mods in rereleases of their UT games. The HRP is made by somthing as "fuzzy" as the Duke comunity.

Originally Posted by Amakou

If they did, the multiplayer would have to be split into HRP and non-HRP....it wouldn't be fair to both sides otherwise.

~Amakou~

I don't think this would be to much of a problem since it's more or less like playing a modern game at different graphical settings. Of course the polymost render mode vs the classic one do give you a little bit different view.

The HRP is no where near being complete and professionally looking enough to be officially released in that kind of way in any case. In a sense it's "just" fan art.

You would have to do quiet a bit of work to get it done to. The size of the thing as it is would go over the limit of an arcade game AFAIK. The port would have to be updated with a new renderer possibly based on the polymost engine but it would still not be just a copy and paste job.

there is a ton of graphical glitches that shows up once you start using 3d models which will have to be solved(a lot of them are sloved in EDuke32).

In other words there are a ton of reasons for 3DR not to do it. It would probably be a better idea to hire people to do one from scratch and really make it consistent and shine. Or possibly hire some of the guys who has made some of the HRP art to get running start.

This turned into a longer post then I intended. I guess I'll just refer to this thread the next time I get an email about this.

[Mr.Fibbles]

Parkar summed it up nicely. It isn't going to happen because the HRP is fan art and incomplete. The actual size of the HRP is well over 200MB (IIRC) and you have to add in the fact that we use maphacks to correct the positioning and rotation of certain sprites (a 2d sprite is easy to place, a 3d sprite is a lot harder to place).

The personal preferences of people will always be present. You cannot objectively say anything "sucks" unless you are talking about physics (in which case you can because of the objective definition of "to suck" and such).
I don't care either way as far as HRP vs 8 bit originals but I by default do play with the HRP and other add-ons. Just personal preference (something very much limited to the PC).

[ZaphodB]

NOTICE: By submitting (e.g., uploading) Content to the 3D Realms Message Board, you automatically grant 3D Realms the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully sub licensable right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content (in whole or part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed.

From the forum rules. Doesn't that legally make the HRP 3DRs?

[peoplessi]

Debatable, but not really an issue that would be worth looking into as Joe Siegler said 3D Realms isn't going to release the HRP.

[Mr.Fibbles]

The HRP in its entirety was never posted on the boards at any time. At least not directly. Individual parts were posted as attachments but links to image host and such don't fall under that clause (do they?). If they did, linking to a demo download would mean that 3DR has the right to use that demo. . . and I'm sure the maker of that demo would love that.

Why are we debating this? There is nothing to debate, 3DR has gone back to making a new game.

[TerminX]

Originally Posted by ZaphodB

NOTICE: By submitting (e.g., uploading) Content to the 3D Realms Message Board, you automatically grant 3D Realms the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully sub licensable right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content (in whole or part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed.

From the forum rules. Doesn't that legally make the HRP 3DRs?

No, it doesn't, for the same reasons that make EULAs unenforceable in court. You can't legally hold someone to the terms of an agreement for which you have no proof (e.g. a signed contract) the person actually agreed to, and it takes a lot more than a sentence on a website to assign copyright. The text you quoted is just there to cover 3DR in the event that somebody posts a game idea they like and end up using, et cetera.

[beachsurfside]

screw the fans....yeah yeah...we're the ones who have stuck around ...
you know i think even having an option for single player only HDR pack would atleast show that you CARE about the fans...
you didnt add ANY of the good maps that have been made over the years either..so good job..nice effort shoveling duke onto xbla.

another thing...have we all lost memory of when we used to get value out of our games?
Like when ninja gaiden xbox came packed with the original games...or how doom 3 xbox came with the original as well. these really cool add ons that are now completly forgotten. Even going back to Super Mario All Stars or the zelda collection.
So why can't we get more value for our dollar? like add in the first duke or something as an unlockable...

rewinding time is sweet though

[ZaphodB]

Wasn't trying to debate it, was looking for clarification. Apparently I've gotten it, again and again.

[KaiserSoze]

Or 3dr could just end up doing a rework of Duke3d using the DNF engine one day and be done with it.

[prophecy holder]

HRP is ugly imo.

[John Killer118]

I'm fascinated by the HRP, but sprites pwn all!

screw the fans....yeah yeah...we're the ones who have stuck around ...
rant
rant
rant

THE fans are never ever ever happy. No matter what you give them.

If for some unexplainable, magical reason 3DRealms had included the 2 original games with Duke3D XBLA people would bitch about it, too.
I know I would, because I never enjoyed playing these particular sidescrollers and I would rant about how they take up unnecessary bandwith. Or something like that.

Just once be happy you got some "real" Duke for your XBox. At least until DNF comes around, no one will give a s**t about the nostalgia-platformers or the HRP then.

But the fans will bitch anyway.

I know I will.

Originally Posted by KaiserSoze

Or 3dr could just end up doing a rework of Duke3d using the DNF engine one day and be done with it.

Why, isn't that what DNF basically is?!
Yeah, well they sure take their sweet time with that. Instead they could have developed a completely new Duke game in those last ten years already.

[ilovefoxes]

HRP is not a professional work. Even if you could say that the Cycloid Emperor and the Queen are great, not all does, not all textures does, nor even it is complete.
And I guess before that it would be looking for enhancements like the Saturn version, with dynamic lighting.

[Silentwulf]

HRP is ok.
It's high quality, but doesn't fit the game too well.
Mainly because we all grew on the old graphics.

I'd rather see a new music pack to the XBL version.

[prophecy holder]

Not really doing anything wrong there tommy. As long as its not Duke nukem then your ok.

[Tea Monster]

The other thing, is that they would have to implement a new engine to take advantage of the 3D models. If you are doing that, then you really need to implement some kind of lighting effects as well. That is a lot of effort to expend for a game dating back to the mid nineties. They would have to hire coders, modellers, texture artists etc. This is highly unlikely when they are (hopefully!) in 'all-hands-on-deck' mode at the moment trying to get DNF out the door.

One thing they might do is to allow a port like EDuke32 to be swapped out on the X-Box in place of the Duke3D executable file, much like we do now on the PC. That would mean that EDuke would have to be re-coded for the X-Box. That means completely re-writing all the net code as well, as currently the net code on EDuke is kinda :-X. There is also no dynamic lighting in EDuke32 either.

Personally, don't see it happening, and no offence to anyone involved, I don't see the point either. Just load the HRP onto your PC.

One thing I did think of, and suggested some time ago, would be if somehow DNF could read in old DN3D maps and convert them so you could play your old maps with the new game and art assets.

[Syph]

Originally Posted by tommy-vercetti

Ok, im posting my game idea now, it's a game about some guy that wears dark shades, and lives in LA, and one day, aliens invade earth and they steal all the strippers, and he has to fight them off while eating lots of bubblegum and spouting off one-liners from a cheesy 80s movie. Im gonna call it, dook nakem 4D. Anyone like it?

One problem with all that... You really shouldn't "eat" gum. Doesn't digest very well

[helious]

i personally HATE the HRP.

really a waste of time..


If the HRP should be a succes, it should have been made all different.
They should have gone with the realistic approach instead og "Cartoony".

Like Doom Classic (For Doom3), or Black Mesa Source.
Recreating the Maps, in extended versions, with a crazy amount of detail on another engine (Unreal Engine 3). Realistic lightning etc.

THAT would be a great HRP.


The current one, dont really know what it wants..
In some way, it tries to make a sprite based game, polygon based. But with the same low-end sprite animations?


But as i said.

I have always hated it..

[Tea Monster]

Originally Posted by helious

i personally HATE the HRP.

really a waste of time..


If the HRP should be a succes, it should have been made all different.
They should have gone with the realistic approach instead og "Cartoony".

Like Doom Classic (For Doom3), or Black Mesa Source.
Recreating the Maps, in extended versions, with a crazy amount of detail on another engine (Unreal Engine 3). Realistic lightning etc.

THAT would be a great HRP....

That has been tried multiple times and each time 3DR has banned thier asses. They have let it be known on multiple occasions that Duke only appears in the DN3D engine. One of the most recent ones was a HL2 effort. It had dynamic lighting, but it got shut down.

[Commando Nukem]

Originally Posted by Tea Monster

That has been tried multiple times and each time 3DR has banned thier asses.

Actually back in '03 when me and my buddy were working on Duke HL 3D Realms was very nice about it. They didnt threaten, they just gave us the warning and we agreed. They only get agressive when you push back, like the guys working on Duke Nukem Source did.

This cracks me up, last year people were complaining that they werent getting Duke on XBLA, now here it is and people are still unhappy. Get happy already.

[Nimoy]

Yeah, seriously. The HRP is rather tacky and ruins the atmosphere of the original game. Its just not well put together enough, and its lacking many important aspects that make modern games look good. (Like advanced lighting.)

[d3ad connection]

Originally Posted by Nimoy

Yeah, seriously. The HRP is rather tacky and ruins the atmosphere of the original game. Its just not well put together enough, and its lacking many important aspects that make modern games look good. (Like advanced lighting.)

That's a limitation of the engine.

[Tea Monster]

Do bear in mind that one reason that it looks 'cartoony' is that it is trying to be a faithful reproduction of an old 1995 DOS based sprite game. The stated intention of the HRP was to make faithfull reproductions, not to update to a modern look and feel.

And yes, there is no dynamic lighting and/or bump mapping or any other modern "next-gen" game tech. That, as has been pointed out by others, is a 'feature' of the engine, not the HRP.

Unless you know of anyone who has any surprises up thier sleeve who knows OpenGL programing, you are going to have to wait till a "Classic Duke" mod for DNF comes out before you see next-gen versions of the old Duke3D monsters.

[Nimoy]

Originally Posted by d3ad connection

That's a limitation of the engine.

And? You miss my point, the limitations of the engine, the grabbag quality, and the tackiness pretty much ruins it for me. Im not going to bash the people who work on the HRP, for I applaud them for their efforts, but it just doesnt work for me.

[d3ad connection]

I was just saying advanced lighting is not possible (yet)

[KO Gilligan]

I guess I'm no purist, I love the HRP. It got me back into playing Duke3D this many years later. Aren't we due for the latest version?

[LadiesAndGentlemen]

All the HRP haters seem to truly believe that DN3D was better visually.

[Tea Monster]

Originally Posted by d3ad connection

I was just saying advanced lighting is not possible (yet)

It IS possible, just nobody has sat down and coded it yet (that we know of - there has been lots of rumors that one of the HRP coders has tried to do this, but nothing solid has been released).

By the time someone did (at this point) try to bring 'real' 3D maps to DN3D and implemented some kind of dynamic lighting, it would be just in time to see DNF come out. I think with all the effort it would take, a 'Classic Duke' mod using the DNF engine is probably the best option to take. Kind of sad in one way, but oh well.