Duke Nukem HRP got ripped

Phait · 03-26-2009, 08:08 PM

Sad to see this in one of my favorite Quake communities

http://celephais.net/board/view_thre...=60315&start=1

I DON'T KNOW if Bondo there is responsible for the mod he posted, which is here:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/superduper-quake/images

"yeah they're ripped from the Duke Nukem High Res Project: http://hrp.duke4.net. I agree they're great"

He said ripped, so I'm assuming they didn't get permission. The license for HRP is a bit confusing, as discusesd in that thread.

Nimoy · 03-26-2009, 08:13 PM

This guy deserves to be shut down just because his mod is BORING.

William Gee · 03-26-2009, 08:16 PM

looks like crap.

Phait · 03-26-2009, 08:47 PM

I agree, I hate those mods that just mash everything together.

Cipher · 03-26-2009, 09:31 PM

Yeah, the only things I've seen in this mod that have any quality were stolen from the HRP or other mods.
Not really worth the effort of trying to shut it down, IMHO.

DeeperThought · 03-26-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phait

He said ripped, so I'm assuming they didn't get permission. The license for HRP is a bit confusing, as discusesd in that thread.

The big, simple rule to remember is that the license only allows using HRP contents with Duke Nukem 3D.

The Commander · 03-26-2009, 10:58 PM

Definitely breaching some laws here.

Plagman · 03-27-2009, 02:30 AM

Well, the story here is that the HRP FAQ is outdated and shouldn't mention the GPL anymore.

Parkar · 03-27-2009, 03:49 AM

I'll fix the FAQ once I get home tonight.

NightFright · 03-28-2009, 06:29 AM

A clear violation of our HRP art license. Very ignorant and rude course of action. And they even admit they did it.

hondobondo · 04-02-2009, 09:48 AM

Hello everyone, bad guy Bondo here

1) I apologize for using everyone's work without permission. I have since taken all downloads offline
2) You guys do awesome work. It was never my intention to take credit for any work that was not my own. I tried to give proper credit when and wherever possible.
3) Please no "Your mod is boring" opinion. I don't care what anyone thinks in this area
4) What can I do to make this legal and proper?

gt1750 · 04-02-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondobondo

4) What can I do to make this legal and proper?

Remove all of the ripped HRP stuff. Even if the authors gave you their permissions, using 3DRealms' original designs in any other game than Duke Nukem 3D would still be illegal.

Dopefish7590 · 04-02-2009, 11:24 AM

It's cool you're trying to set stuff straight. But I really don't see any way that it would work without a ton of extra work... Sorry.

Parkar · 04-02-2009, 11:37 AM

It could work but it's probably more work to get permission for each piece of art and modify it to no longer resemble 3DR trademarks then to do them from scratch.

Quiet a bit of the HRP art has multiple authors so it's going to be a bitch get a hold of them.

Kristian Joensen · 04-02-2009, 11:50 AM

Trademarks don't enter into this. The standards of what constitutes infringement is quite different for trademarks and copyrights. Alot of the HRP art does not infringe on 3DR copyrights, but unfortunately for some, the HRP license goes beyond what copyright law requires with the uniform requirement that the art not be used with anything other than Duke3D.

An alternative way of doing it back when the license was chosen was to state in the license matter of factly that some of the art covered under it is based on 3DR copyrights and that use of those art assets is not allowed outside Duke3D without 3DR's permission. But the community chose not to do that, so that is that. You have to respect that, is it their work.

IANAL, ofcourse.

Nimoy · 04-02-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondobondo

Hello everyone, bad guy Bondo here

1) I apologize for using everyone's work without permission. I have since taken all downloads offline
2) You guys do awesome work. It was never my intention to take credit for any work that was not my own. I tried to give proper credit when and wherever possible.
3) Please no "Your mod is boring" opinion. I don't care what anyone thinks in this area
4) What can I do to make this legal and proper?

lol, butthurt.

Parkar · 04-02-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen

Trademarks don't enter into this. The standards of what constitutes infringement is quite different for trademarks and copyrights. Alot of the HRP art does not infringe on 3DR copyrights, but unfortunately for some, the HRP license goes beyond what copyright law requires with the uniform requirement that the art not be used with anything other than Duke3D.

An alternative way of doing it back when the license was chosen was to state in the license matter of factly that some of the art covered under it is based on 3DR copyrights and that use of those art assets is not allowed outside Duke3D without 3DR's permission. But the community chose not to do that, so that is that. You have to respect that, is it their work.

IANAL, ofcourse.

But if you ask the original author for permission it would go past the license of the HRP as you are no longer using an HRP asset but the asset you got from the original author who as far as I understand things is in no way limited by the HRP license. Limiting the contributors was at least not the intention of the HRP license. Or in other words the original author is not limited to releasing his art under multiple licenses.

My use of the word trademark might not have been completely correct. What I was trying to say is I don't think there is any problem for someone to get a generic texture from an HRP artist and use it as they whish. Using say the Duke model as a main character for a game should be a problem though even if I (author) am okay with it.

Correct me if I am wrong.

hondobondo · 04-02-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parkar

But if you ask the original author for permission it would go past the license of the HRP as you are no longer using an HRP asset but the asset you got from the original author who as far as I understand things is in no way limited by the HRP license. Limiting the contributors was at least not the intention of the HRP license. Or in other words the original author is not limited to releasing his art under multiple licenses.

My use of the word trademark might not have been completely correct. What I was trying to say is I don't think there is any problem for someone to get a generic texture from an HRP artist and use it as they whish. Using say the Duke model as a main character for a game should be a problem though even if I (author) am okay with it.

Correct me if I am wrong.

ok so my options are

1) remove all references to duke 3d.
2) get permissions from all the authors
3) keep it offline

1) well there a few quake mods that make references to duke 3d sound/music/art whatever. no one has any problems with those. not that those mods are entirely "legal" either. if this were a perfect world and everyone were just as creative as any other I wouldn't have used anyone's work and would have just created my own game. hell i would've used the Quake3 engine... but i digress.
i could do this but i'd rather the mod live on forever in the "cloud" like aliens quake because, well, duke is awesome and vanilla quake is pretty blah

2) parkar's idea above may have some merit -- getting permission from each artist on individual models. the main assets are the models:

emperor/queen/overlord/battlelord
duke/lizard/predator/newbeast
octabrain/pigcop/pigtank/pigcar

fat commander -- model is great but he's pretty redundant as a monster. just a missile shooting flying fat boy
kamikaze drone -- eh i could live without him

of course there're the sounds. but the soundtrack has been redone and released to everyone years ago. does 3drealms even care?

3) whatever. if this is the only viable option so be it

Kristian Joensen · 04-02-2009, 01:01 PM

No that is correct. But in that sense, it is somewhat questionable if you can have an overall license for the HRP, covering the parts. Technically, the community can not distribute the HRP at all without specific permission from each and every artist/author.

"Using say the Duke model as a main character for a game should be a problem though even if I (author) am okay with it."

Probably, yes. But you could probably say "Use at your own risk, I am not gonna sue, but don't blame me if 3D Realms does", you don't have an obligation to enforce 3DR's copyrights against others. If I was in charge of the HRP, I would

A)Have required that in order to contribute to it, all contributors sign a contribution agreement(Only one, covering all their contributions uploaded at a certain place) allowing the HRP to distribute the contribution as part of the HRP and to do so under the license agreement of the HRP.
B)Have the license agreement for it have a clause stating that some of it is based on 3DR IP and that we cannot license that to 3rd parties, use outside of Duke3D being at people's own risk and peril.

Edit:

This was in reply to Parkar.

The Commander · 04-02-2009, 01:05 PM

Ah the guy who removed my comment on MODDB.com after alerting him that what he was doing was wrong. Maybe he see's the error of his ways now.

But I do like the fact that he has decided to come here and make a statement, not alot of other HRP stealers would do that.

Parkar · 04-02-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondobondo

ok so my options are

1) remove all references to duke 3d.
2) get permissions from all the authors
3) keep it offline

1) well there a few quake mods that make references to duke 3d sound/music/art whatever. no one has any problems with those. not that those mods are entirely "legal" either. if this were a perfect world and everyone were just as creative as any other I wouldn't have used anyone's work and would have just created my own game. hell i would've used the Quake3 engine... but i digress.
i could do this but i'd rather the mod live on forever in the "cloud" like aliens quake because, well, duke is awesome and vanilla quake is pretty blah

2) parkar's idea above may have some merit -- getting permission from each artist on individual models. the main assets are the models:

emperor/queen/overlord/battlelord
duke/lizard/predator/newbeast
octabrain/pigcop/pigtank/pigcar

fat commander -- model is great but he's pretty redundant as a monster. just a missile shooting flying fat boy
kamikaze drone -- eh i could live without him

of course there're the sounds. but the soundtrack has been redone and released to everyone years ago. does 3drealms even care?

3) whatever. if this is the only viable option so be it

Actually 1 and 2 are not 2 options as they are the same option. Remove references and get permission from authors.

@ Kristian: Yea, having a contract that contributors sign would obviously make things more clear. I did however have everyone agree to the HRP license at the time it was put in place. Anyone after that is more or les implicitly agreeing to their work being released under the HRP license. Might not be the absolutely correct way of doing things but the administration would be to annoying to even keep the contribution open to anyone if we want to be really anal about it. I think in quiet a lot of places in the world we would not even be able to just do things online either to make things legaly binding.

Kristian Joensen · 04-02-2009, 01:22 PM

Yeah, this should not be seen as a critique of you guys at all. You guys have done an amazing job and obviously hate to bother with all this legal/administrative work and as a voluntary project, you guys haven't got the resources to hire outside help like lawyers.

Edit:

"Anyone after that is more or les implicitly agreeing to their work being released under the HRP license."

I was actually thinking more about the people contributing before that. Again even in that case, like I said, it is alot of boring administrative work.

marked · 04-04-2009, 09:01 PM

I saw a video on you-tube tonight of a mod for the game Zombie Master that is also using HRP content.

KareBear · 04-04-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marked

I saw a video on you-tube tonight of a mod for the game Zombie Master that is also using HRP content.

Link please?I also saw a fear video showing hrp content.

marked · 04-04-2009, 10:23 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8pSZ...eature=related

hightreason · 04-05-2009, 02:07 AM

I wish people would stop ripping this, it's disrespectful.
I've used hrp stuff as a placeholder before now, but never released/shown any of it.

moggimus · 04-05-2009, 02:43 AM

Nobody complains about all the assets taken from other games used in Duke mods.

KaiHanshen · 04-05-2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimoy

lol, butthurt.

What are you, a /b/tard kiddie?

.

Nimoy · 04-05-2009, 01:54 PM

I do not forgive, I do not forget.

KillerBudgie · 04-05-2009, 02:50 PM

Thieving b*"£&£^s! You do all the hard work, they get all the credit! It ticks me off!!

Sang · 04-05-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moggimus

Nobody complains about all the assets taken from other games used in Duke mods.

Haha, this has crossed my mind as well. It doesn't excuse people that use HRP content though, it just condemns all of us who steal stuff from other mods

Still, touché

engineer · 04-05-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8pSZ...eature=related

Third-party map.

hondobondo · 05-08-2009, 09:26 AM

hey everyone, i would like to ask in light of this horrible horrible news, can everyone give me permission to continue work on SDQuake Duke Nukem edition so Duke can live on in the Quake engine?

The Commander · 05-08-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondobondo

hey everyone, i would like to ask in light of this horrible horrible news, can everyone give me permission to continue work on SDQuake Duke Nukem edition so Duke can live on in the Quake engine?

See, I knew this would happen pretty quick, everyone thinks that because 3DR has closed down that Duke Nukem 3D will be freeware, WRONG.

All Duke Nukem 3D material still hold there copyrights.

Sang · 05-08-2009, 10:41 AM

It's a legitimate question but the timing was pretty bad and now that makes you look like a rude cock. (Talking to hondobondo, it's obvious by now that The Commander is a rude dude)

TerminX · 05-08-2009, 10:43 AM

Dude, no. No matter what happens, nothing will make it okay for you to release a Quake mod full of Duke Nukem stuff.

03-26-2009, 08:08 PM	#1
Phait	Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Sad to see this in one of my favorite Quake communities http://celephais.net/board/view_thre...=60315&start=1 I DON'T KNOW if Bondo there is responsible for the mod he posted, which is here: http://www.moddb.com/mods/superduper-quake/images "yeah they're ripped from the Duke Nukem High Res Project: http://hrp.duke4.net. I agree they're great" He said ripped, so I'm assuming they didn't get permission. The license for HRP is a bit confusing, as discusesd in that thread. __________________ Music: http://www.oquilluksound.com Album: http://machinefaultred.blogspot.com Album Calendar Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/oquilluksound "but I promise you this, I'll always look out for you, that's what I do" -Coldplay Last edited by Phait; 03-26-2009 at 08:11 PM.

03-26-2009, 08:13 PM	#2
Nimoy	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped This guy deserves to be shut down just because his mod is BORING. __________________ The feeling is definitely there. It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits. We dont just want to survive, we want to succeed. - President of the USA, "They Live"

03-26-2009, 08:16 PM	#3
William Gee	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped looks like crap. __________________ WGRealms.com

03-26-2009, 08:47 PM	#4
Phait	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped I agree, I hate those mods that just mash everything together. __________________ Music: http://www.oquilluksound.com Album: http://machinefaultred.blogspot.com Album Calendar Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/oquilluksound "but I promise you this, I'll always look out for you, that's what I do" -Coldplay

03-26-2009, 09:31 PM	#5
Cipher	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Yeah, the only things I've seen in this mod that have any quality were stolen from the HRP or other mods. Not really worth the effort of trying to shut it down, IMHO. __________________ I never got to know half of you half as much as I'd have liked, and I never liked half of you half as much as you deserved. Christian Death Metal FTW! Last edited by Cipher; 03-26-2009 at 09:39 PM.

03-26-2009, 10:58 PM	#7
The Commander	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Definitely breaching some laws here. __________________ I Know Everything There Is To Know About Anything. Duke Nukem Red Alert SVN Ask Me Anything!

03-27-2009, 02:30 AM	#8
Plagman	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Well, the story here is that the HRP FAQ is outdated and shouldn't mention the GPL anymore. __________________ EDuke32 - "The corrupt doctrine of terror has begun."

03-27-2009, 03:49 AM	#9
Parkar	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped I'll fix the FAQ once I get home tonight. __________________ Action Unreal Tournament Duke Nukem 3D: High Resolution Pack HRP wiki: A HRP development tool

03-28-2009, 06:29 AM	#10
NightFright	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped A clear violation of our HRP art license. Very ignorant and rude course of action. And they even admit they did it. __________________ Duke3D HRP Update Pack Duke3D HRP Wiki To-Do List

04-02-2009, 09:48 AM	#11
hondobondo	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Hello everyone, bad guy Bondo here 1) I apologize for using everyone's work without permission. I have since taken all downloads offline 2) You guys do awesome work. It was never my intention to take credit for any work that was not my own. I tried to give proper credit when and wherever possible. 3) Please no "Your mod is boring" opinion. I don't care what anyone thinks in this area 4) What can I do to make this legal and proper?

04-02-2009, 11:24 AM	#13
Dopefish7590	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped It's cool you're trying to set stuff straight. But I really don't see any way that it would work without a ton of extra work... Sorry. Last edited by Dopefish7590; 04-02-2009 at 04:06 PM.

04-02-2009, 11:37 AM	#14
Parkar	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped It could work but it's probably more work to get permission for each piece of art and modify it to no longer resemble 3DR trademarks then to do them from scratch. Quiet a bit of the HRP art has multiple authors so it's going to be a bitch get a hold of them. __________________ Action Unreal Tournament Duke Nukem 3D: High Resolution Pack HRP wiki: A HRP development tool

04-02-2009, 11:50 AM	#15
Kristian Joensen	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Trademarks don't enter into this. The standards of what constitutes infringement is quite different for trademarks and copyrights. Alot of the HRP art does not infringe on 3DR copyrights, but unfortunately for some, the HRP license goes beyond what copyright law requires with the uniform requirement that the art not be used with anything other than Duke3D. An alternative way of doing it back when the license was chosen was to state in the license matter of factly that some of the art covered under it is based on 3DR copyrights and that use of those art assets is not allowed outside Duke3D without 3DR's permission. But the community chose not to do that, so that is that. You have to respect that, is it their work. IANAL, ofcourse. __________________ The Philosophy Of Liberty, Chaos Theory Tachyons, Time Travel, and Divine Omniscience A Refutation of Moral Relativism(Transcript)

04-02-2009, 01:01 PM	#19
Kristian Joensen	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped No that is correct. But in that sense, it is somewhat questionable if you can have an overall license for the HRP, covering the parts. Technically, the community can not distribute the HRP at all without specific permission from each and every artist/author. "Using say the Duke model as a main character for a game should be a problem though even if I (author) am okay with it." Probably, yes. But you could probably say "Use at your own risk, I am not gonna sue, but don't blame me if 3D Realms does", you don't have an obligation to enforce 3DR's copyrights against others. If I was in charge of the HRP, I would A)Have required that in order to contribute to it, all contributors sign a contribution agreement(Only one, covering all their contributions uploaded at a certain place) allowing the HRP to distribute the contribution as part of the HRP and to do so under the license agreement of the HRP. B)Have the license agreement for it have a clause stating that some of it is based on 3DR IP and that we cannot license that to 3rd parties, use outside of Duke3D being at people's own risk and peril. Edit: This was in reply to Parkar. __________________ The Philosophy Of Liberty, Chaos Theory Tachyons, Time Travel, and Divine Omniscience A Refutation of Moral Relativism(Transcript)

04-02-2009, 01:05 PM	#20
The Commander	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Ah the guy who removed my comment on MODDB.com after alerting him that what he was doing was wrong. Maybe he see's the error of his ways now. But I do like the fact that he has decided to come here and make a statement, not alot of other HRP stealers would do that. __________________ I Know Everything There Is To Know About Anything. Duke Nukem Red Alert SVN Ask Me Anything!

04-02-2009, 01:22 PM	#22
Kristian Joensen	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Yeah, this should not be seen as a critique of you guys at all. You guys have done an amazing job and obviously hate to bother with all this legal/administrative work and as a voluntary project, you guys haven't got the resources to hire outside help like lawyers. Edit: "Anyone after that is more or les implicitly agreeing to their work being released under the HRP license." I was actually thinking more about the people contributing before that. Again even in that case, like I said, it is alot of boring administrative work. __________________ The Philosophy Of Liberty, Chaos Theory Tachyons, Time Travel, and Divine Omniscience A Refutation of Moral Relativism(Transcript)

04-04-2009, 09:01 PM	#23
marked	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped I saw a video on you-tube tonight of a mod for the game Zombie Master that is also using HRP content.

04-04-2009, 10:23 PM	#25
marked	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8pSZ...eature=related

04-05-2009, 02:07 AM	#26
hightreason	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped I wish people would stop ripping this, it's disrespectful. I've used hrp stuff as a placeholder before now, but never released/shown any of it. __________________ High Treason (My Website) (Second Site) (My YouTube) Punk's not dead - and nor is Duke! Ever get the feeling you are being ignored?

04-05-2009, 02:43 AM	#27
moggimus	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Nobody complains about all the assets taken from other games used in Duke mods.

04-05-2009, 01:54 PM	#29
Nimoy	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped I do not forgive, I do not forget. __________________ The feeling is definitely there. It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits. We dont just want to survive, we want to succeed. - President of the USA, "They Live"

04-05-2009, 02:50 PM	#30
KillerBudgie	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Thieving b"£&£^s! You do all the hard work, they get all the credit! It ticks me off!! __________________ The Duke will kill you, the Budgies will eat you!!*

05-08-2009, 09:26 AM	#33
hondobondo	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped hey everyone, i would like to ask in light of this horrible horrible news, can everyone give me permission to continue work on SDQuake Duke Nukem edition so Duke can live on in the Quake engine?

05-08-2009, 10:41 AM	#35
Sang	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped It's a legitimate question but the timing was pretty bad and now that makes you look like a rude cock. (Talking to hondobondo, it's obvious by now that The Commander is a rude dude) __________________ traB pu kcip

05-08-2009, 10:43 AM	#36
TerminX	Re: Duke Nukem HRP got ripped Dude, no. No matter what happens, nothing will make it okay for you to release a Quake mod full of Duke Nukem stuff. __________________ EDuke32 \| Duke4.net forums, the largest Duke Nukem 3D community on the Internet Visit #eduke32 on irc.freenode.net!