Windows XP and the 2014 end-of-life confusion

[Glassagate]

I'm confused. I don't use XP, but I know some people who do.
They have SP3 installed, but are regular users (they aren't using the
business editions). They aren't subscribed to any services from M$.
Every so many Tuesdays, they can download critical updates from
M$.

In 2014, Windows XP comes to the end of its support lifecycle,
which means that no more critical updates will be released, but have
they not been receiving updates, over the last few years, since
they aren't business subscribers?

I know that I'm missing information. I've looked around,
which has made me even more confused. Can anyone
out there fill in the blanks?

I know about the recent end of support for people running
SP2. I don't know if this helps any.

[Jeff]

Not sure why people are so afraid to upgrade to Windows 7, but that's just me. I mean back in 2000 or so people were so reluctant to upgrade from Windows 2000 to XP, and now they love XP. So maybe in a few years, people will upgrade to Windows 7 once the OS matures a bit.

If you use an ancient piece of software for too long, it's going to become a security risk, so it's always best to use the most up to date stuff.

I think part of it has something to do with people being afraid of change, and that Windows Vista/7 are somewhat different than XP, some people aren't willing to learn to the new stuff. Always good to learn new things.

[Wamplet]

2014 is the end of life for software support for XPsp3.


for businesses (primarily):

OEM XP downgrade rights were extended as well. The cutoff date was originally a few years ago shortly right after vista and then pushed back to August of this year once no one wanted to use vista and retain xp downgrade rights, but since so many companies felt they had a gun to their head to upgrade to Windows 7 or Vista due to the recent downgrade cut-off (not support cutoff), Microsoft re-extended OEM downgrade rights.

If you have XP SP3, i believe the support for it will run through 2014. I think some of the posts mentioned that downgrade rights were possibly allowed between 2014 and 2020. That's pretty god damn insane.

Regardless, That's a long ******* time. XP has been out since 2001/2002. It's been out for nearly a decade.

[Nessus]

As far as I was concerned Microsoft has not been to worried about XP for a long time, it feels to me like it's getting harder to defend against infection these days. They don't want people using an OS for 15-20 years

[KO Gilligan]

Those of us who may still have old OSs hanging around to run our classic games will be fine as long as it will still run on newer systems, but as far as the lifecycle, by 2014 the mainstream consumers will want to run software far beyond wanting XP to do it. I game on XP and Win7 64bit, and thank God for DOSbox

Businesses, on the other hand, keep their systems until it just won't work, and XP is solid... I'm thinking there is probably alot of medium sized businesses, running proprietary software, that will run XP for the next decade.

[Wamplet]

Originally Posted by KO Gilligan

Businesses, on the other hand, keep their systems until it just won't work, and XP is solid... I'm thinking there is probably alot of medium sized businesses, running proprietary software, that will run XP for the next decade.

That is our situationat work. There are a lot more benefits for most users with moving up than keeping XP, but we either have to move to completely new systems to replace old 3rd party software or machines that will run with Windows 7 or just leave the systems on XP if no alternative is around.

Some of the software is stuff programmed from scratch just for the company or one machine, so that is where a majority of the problems lie. That and the cost of reprogramming or replacing the system.

[8IronBob]

Well, I say that if you're gonna still be using Windows XP it's either best to dual-boot or virtualize XP along with Windows 7 for that "futureproofed" feeling. I mean, just so long as the OEM XP copy is separate from the Win 7 copy, you can easily download Virtual PC or whatever, and then activate Win XP as a virtual OS for a time. No big deal there.

[Dukefan24]

M$ wants to drop support for an OS using their so-called 'cycle' in order to make place for a new one.

But if they're forced to keep support, like with XP, the technology will be kept updated and so it never grows old.

In that case, we, the customers, are helping M$ to stop that damn cycle so that they can develop a stable (finished) product!

Ahh, I love how business works..

[Phayzon]

Are we still running Linux distros from 2001? No. Are we still using MacOS from 2001? No. Are we still playing consoles from 2001? No. So why do we want Microsoft's OS from 2001?

[Superczar]

My work still uses Word97. Then again we have to for our customization for our files.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Originally Posted by Phayzon

Are we still running Linux distros from 2001? No. Are we still using MacOS from 2001? No. Are we still playing consoles from 2001? No. So why do we want Microsoft's OS from 2001?

Consumers don't, really. The general consumer wants the bigger, better, and having it work.

It's businesses that want stuff that just works and if it works, they don't want to touch it. We just updated our machines at work to XP and Office 2007. To be honest, I think the jump to Office 2007 is retarded since Office 2010 is out, but XP, well, better than 2000 cause I hate working with Windows 2000.

[TerminX]

Originally Posted by Phayzon

Are we still running Linux distros from 2001? No. Are we still using MacOS from 2001? No. Are we still playing consoles from 2001? No. So why do we want Microsoft's OS from 2001?

This, 1000 times over.

[Jeff]

Can't keep using XP forever. Newer OSes usually have better features than the older OSes. What's holding all these people back from upgrading?

[Zero]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Can't keep using XP forever. Newer OSes usually have better features than the older OSes. What's holding all these people back from upgrading?

Some people (I am one of them) see that if it's not broken don't fix it? I hate Windows 7's look and feel, it's fine for you windows cronies, but for people who don't use windows a lot like me it's rather annoying, everything is everywhere but were it's supposed to be, I don't care about joe blow program is trying to communicate to the internet, I don't want to tinker with windows if I only use it at school, were the images are frozen, so when they restart the pc's the setting revert, there is no default settings in Windows 7 that is natural, so Windows 7 is useless to me. If I really must run windows for my labs, it better be XP or nothing.

[Jeff]

What about all the security risks that will come in 5 years? Won't people be open to more viruses if they don't upgrade?

[Zero]

Originally Posted by Jeff

What about all the security risks that will come in 5 years? Won't people be open to more viruses if they don't upgrade?

The images are frozen, meaning they installing the OS and basically every time you log out the system is completely erased and restored to this frozen image, meaning you could go into the cmd and if windows would let you 'deltree C:\windows reboot and nothing would happen, you could boot back into windows just fine, because the entire system and all the damage you did was never saved to begin with.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Originally Posted by Zero

Some people (I am one of them) see that if it's not broken don't fix it? I hate Windows 7's look and feel, it's fine for you windows cronies, but for people who don't use windows a lot like me it's rather annoying, everything is everywhere but were it's supposed to be, I don't care about joe blow program is trying to communicate to the internet, I don't want to tinker with windows if I only use it at school, were the images are frozen, so when they restart the pc's the setting revert, there is no default settings in Windows 7 that is natural, so Windows 7 is useless to me. If I really must run windows for my labs, it better be XP or nothing.

ROFL, you are funny. Considering Windows 7 does everything better than XP. Well, except for 16 bit programs if you ran XP x86 and are running 7 x64.

But the if it's not broken, don't fix it, is a business mentality.

[Zero]

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor

ROFL, you are funny. Considering Windows 7 does everything better than XP. Well, except for 16 bit programs if you ran XP x86 and are running 7 x64.

But the if it's not broken, don't fix it, is a business mentality.

It doesn't matter if it's faster then XP or better then XP, if I can't find anything I am looking for then it's less appealing for me to use, who cares if it can fly itself to Mars and back, if i can't used it well enough without relearning all of windows what good is it to me?

[crunchy superman]

As has been said, this is mostly a business issue. I'm typing this on XP here at work. Hell, right next to me is a machine running 98, and I've got a cell controller downstairs running NT4. These machines are offline & dedicated to basically one function, so changing the OS would improve nothing.

At home, of course, is a different story. Win7 on my desktop & Ubuntu on my netbook.

Still, having said that, I do agree with Zero on one thing - Win7 just doesn't "feel" right to me. Never has.

[8IronBob]

Well, I like that MS includes 32 and 64-bit flavors of Ultimate in the same retail package, but the thing I don't like is that they probably won't let you dual-boot off the same license, possibly. It seems like MS is only giving you and either/or situation, not both. Sad, but I guess if I want to run legacy programs (programs or games that won't run via backwards compatibility in x64), I either see dual-booting with Windows XP and/or an OEM copy of an x86 copy of Windows 7, or possibly an x86 linux distro such as openSUSE or Ubuntu.

[fast-1]

I think that if you upgrade to windows 7, you would need a new case, mobo and ram.

On older machines it would be tougher because PC selling companies put system reset if you get any OS problems.

[X-Vector]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Can't keep using XP forever. Newer OSes usually have better features than the older OSes. What's holding all these people back from upgrading?

In my case it's been game (in-)compatibility that held me back.

Thinking of going for a new dual-boot system though, now that my current PC doesn't seem too eager to properly boot into Windows anymore.

[Phayzon]

Originally Posted by 8IronBob

I either see dual-booting with Windows XP and/or an OEM copy of an x86 copy of Windows 7, or possibly an x86 linux distro such as openSUSE or Ubuntu.

Why not just install XP Mode?

Originally Posted by fast-1

I think that if you upgrade to windows 7, you would need a new case, mobo and ram.

Ive put Win7 on some dinosaurs and it runs good.

[8IronBob]

Yeah, but Windows XP mode requires that you install *cough*Virtual PC*cough*. If I wanted to run a virtual OS, I'd run it under Oracle's VirtualBox, that's what I'm running openSUSE 11.3 in as we speak.

[Phayzon]

How often do you REALLY use a 16 bit program anyway?

XP Mode hides itself quite well once the program is installed, you can launch it right from Win7 and do your business with it without ever seeing VirtualPC. Unless you'd rather install everything you use in 2 OS's, or reboot so you can use one program for a little, then boot back into Win7...

[X-Vector]

I think the problem with Virtual PC's XP Mode (for me at least) is this:

Why is Windows XP Mode not available in Windows 7 Home Premium?

Windows XP Mode is best suited for older business and productivity applications such as accounting, inventory, and similar applications. Windows XP Mode is not aimed at consumers because many consumer applications require extensive use of hardware interfaces, such as 3-D graphics, audio, and TV tuners, that do not work well under virtualization today.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/vir...pport/faq.aspx

[Crosma]

Originally Posted by X-Vector

I think the problem with Virtual PC's XP Mode

VMWare and VirtualBox both have pass-through hardware acceleration support (in VirtualBox, Direct3D support has to be set up in safe mode and is considered experimental, but OpenGL support works like a dream) when Windows is the guest. Plus they beat Virtual PC's general performance. VirtualBox is actually pretty decent for playing Windows games, as long as you enable mouse grabbing.

Virtual PC is just not competitive with its peers.

[peter_m_green]

XP is in extended support.

Per microsoft's lifecycle policy that means:
security updates are free
non-security bugfixes cost $$$ (you have to get "software assurance" on the machines and then pay for the hotfixes on top of that)
new features will not be considered
the free support included with retail copies is no longer valid
pay per incident support is still available


Normally extended support only applies to buisness and developer products but it seems MS are treating all editions of XP the same from a support point of view (they list the same end of support dates for all editions).

[8IronBob]

Originally Posted by Crosma

VMWare and VirtualBox both have pass-through hardware acceleration support (in VirtualBox, Direct3D support has to be set up in safe mode and is considered experimental, but OpenGL support works like a dream) when Windows is the guest. Plus they beat Virtual PC's general performance. VirtualBox is actually pretty decent for playing Windows games, as long as you enable mouse grabbing.

Virtual PC is just not competitive with its peers.

Exactly, that's why I wish that Windows XP mode could be virtualized in any virtualization software you choose. Seems like for "DRM" purposes, they want you to stick with THEIR inferior virtualization software.

Probably would've been better that they supply you with a dual-boot option where MS could allow you to install both x86 and x64 flavors of Win 7 on the same PC under the same license. That probably would've been better than Windows XP mode, imo. Believe me, that should have been the idea that they should have originally went with.

[Xonic]

Aside from the fact that Vista was pretty much the new Windows ME and practically was the worst OS Microsoft has put out yet, I'd love to give Windows 7 a chance on the new comp I am building.

At the moment you get a virtual edition of Windows XP with Windows 7 Ultimate.

[Phayzon]

As well as Professional.

[cdoublejj]

Xp will still be used after its end of updates there still entire communitys based around 98 weather it be running it on new hardware via unofficial patches or installing kernel ex to run xp programs on 98.

xp won't die completely either even anti virus will continue for xp for a some while. 98 lost support in 06 wich is almost as long as xp.

the only problem i see are less fortunate can't afford a system capable of xp around here at the shop i work at we still pentium 3's with 512mb sd133 ram and xp for 50 bucks cause there are people who got hit hard with the low job rates. (actually run fairly well on the Internet for their age)

but, i guess they don't matter since they are poor. naturally though i think after a while the hardware market with change and win 7 pc will market for 100 bucks but, it will be sometime till then.


EDIT: supposedly at the shop i work at, the boss man worked over a 7 machine with 512mb he said it wasn't half bad, i also ran a pentium M laptop with 512 ram it runs like pc133 legacy with xp. maybe pentium 4's will be the new poor mans clunker?

[IceColdDuke]

Originally Posted by cdoublejj

xp for 50 bucks

You can get way better hardware than that for 50 bucks...

[Sang]

Second that... 50 bucks for XP nowadays is a ripoff.

[cdoublejj]

i said hardware with xp you know the seal on the side that makes it legit. while WE here at the forums can get better hardware. where i live we don't have micro centers etc. Local business or best buy sell that stuff local business have over head and best buy has prices even higher than the local places on some stuff and considering people who buys are puter stupid and only do college work or check emails. i don't see any other competing prices around here for better stuff.

Personally i try to sell xp COAs it's for around 15 bucks sometimes 10 and vista COAs for 5 bucks every once in a while i have lunch money.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by cdoublejj

i said hardware with xp

Oh oops, indeed you did.. My bad Still, a pentium 3 with 512MB RAM... is pretty worthless nowadays. Last year, I "sold" a graphics card I've had since 2002 but it had become so worthless (as in: not worth that much money anymore, it was still a good card for old games) that I had to give it away for 1 euro

[cdoublejj]

believe it or not a 1ghz p3 can just manage non hd youtube, still defiantly not the fastest. you would be surprised what out dated hardware can run BELIEVE ME i have p3 laptop with 384mb ram 16mb gfx card, i can run indie games and lowpoly games like halflife 1 on steam on wine under xubuntu 9.04 O_0