Take Two Sues 3D Realms

[Derfernet]

Scott said 3D realms got no money from the deal and for now I'm taking his word on that. Lying about something like that when it can be so easily checked by the courts this close to a court case would be idiotic. And despite what some may think about him and George I do not believe they are idiots.

[BloodWolf806]

You can't really be mad at either party. Each have a valid arguement. Either way, 3DR has no money, so the only thing that T2 can go after is the Duke IP...

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by Derfernet

Scott said 3D realms got no money from the deal and for now I'm taking his word on that. Lying about something like that when it can be so easily checked by the courts this close to a court case would be idiotic. And despite what some may think about him and George I do not believe they are idiots.

Thats what Im saying, I didnt know Take Two handed millions over, I thought the publishers they bought paid for the rights.

If steve says not a dime, I as well believe him

I was wrong, May 2000 god was bought by take two

[SpinX]

take 2 needs to STFU imo...

[Pycine]

There are lots of people here saying "If you put X dollars into something, you have to get something out of it". That's very often untrue. Sometimes investments bomb and there's nothing you can do to get your money back. Its a risk. Check the recent stock market for plenty of examples. I also doubt the guys that poured money into the New Coke project got their money back. I think the problem here is we don't know what the contract says 3D Realms is required to do. Do we KNOW that it actually requires 3DR to produce the game, or do we just know that, if the game is produced, that Take Two is the only company allowed to publish it? I tend to think that, if it were the former, Take Two would say that "we have a contract saying this game would get done, and it didnt", whereas all the news reports seem to say "George said it'd get done [note: not necessarily legally binding] and we lost a lot of money hoping he was right". (Im horribly paraphrasing the articles, of course) Of course, I may just be splitting hairs over their choice of words.

[unforgiven]

Google STFU IMO and check the first result , LoL

[dan2091]

Originally Posted by BloodWolf806

You can't really be mad at either party. Each have a valid arguement. Either way, 3DR has no money, so the only thing that T2 can go after is the Duke IP...

Well, Take Two is demanding 12 millions, right? I don't believe the Duke Nukem IP worths 12 millions only. I'd give them the DNF source at best, if they pretend to finish the game and get their money back.

Anyway, T2 actions are unethical, they don't fund the game as if they don't care about it and now they sue 3DR for 12 millions. It's not T2 responsibility to fund the game, but now they're mad at seeing how the game's not getting done, despite they knew this was coming and not funding the game at all.

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by dan2091

Well, Take Two is demanding 12 millions, right? I don't believe the Duke Nukem IP worths 12 millions only. I'd give them the DNF source at best, if they pretend to finish the game and get their money back.

Anyway, T2 actions are unethical, they don't fund the game as if they don't care about it and now they sue 3DR for 12 millions. It's not T2 responsibility to fund the game, but now they're mad at seeing how the game's not getting done, despite they knew this was coming and not funding the game at all.

Unethical? Its corporate america my friend

Thats why you see the original game dev studios like ID/3DRealms/Rockstar pretty much stick to themselves and dont become public companies. Most want to make games, they want to make money, they dont want to be ran by a bank :P

I want to see 3DRealms make it through the tough time, the Duke Nukem IPs would be worth some real bucks

I find it funny they want the SOURCE code......Are they after the engine

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by peoplessi

Times of despair truly shows the colors of people. If this turns the otherway around, I hope we don't see you posting here anymore

Lets say you did own a game developing studio and one of your developers were doing the same thing George was doing. Would you fire him on the spot or let him continue on running your business in the ground?

I would fire him and give it to someone who can manage a project better. It may sound cruel but it's called business and no amount of fanboy lovisms can change it.

[dan2091]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

Unethical? Its corporate america my friend

haha.... You're right there.

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

I find it funny they want the SOURCE code......Are they after the engine

Up to now they want it because they don't want 3D Realms to change anything from the actual build either to finish the game. So they ask for a copy to assure that nothing will be changed.

[v.o]

Duke-EX Delivery

Status: Belated
Shipped to : USA
Package: Democracy

Package Progress:

Location: GB´s Desk Date: 2001 Activity: Watching GiveMePink

Location: GB´s Basement Date: 2007 Activity: Playing WoW

Location: GB´s Garbage Date: 2009 Activity: Reading Forums, Fireing ppl, Party

Activity : when its done

Note for Comunity : Delivery Boy got killed sorry and Go **** Your Self

PS: we SURE did evrythink we could, bad bad take2 didn let us finish it at the last second. Damn Close God damit

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by dan2091

haha.... You're right there.



Up to now they want it because they don't want 3D Realms to change anything from the actual build either to finish the game. So they ask for a copy to assure that nothing will be changed.

Indeed, but the source code in THIS case is part of the engine. Imagine a publisher who owns their own engine as advanced as 3Drealms engine here?

Youd see 500 games published on the engine :P theyd create stories and games based off new stories

Yes its corporate america

Take Two is a business, what makes more money? Making a new game every year or one every 13 years?

[Jiminator]

Originally Posted by Swetsenegger

If a farmer gives somebody the right to eat a apple from his tree, which is due next fall, for $1,- And before the apple is done the somebody sells this right for the apple to another for $100,- Now a major apple flu is coming and the farmers apples are all gone. He cannot give the apple to the guy with the 'firts to eat apple' right.... Does the farmer now have to pay $100,- ?

an example of this is a commodities contract which is strictly regulated by the mercantile market. they are like the stock market. contracts are issued on a quarterly basis.

an appple grower may sell a futures contract for a fixed price. an apple grower may buy a contract to receive the apples. Additionally ANYONE can both sell and buy these contracts if they think the price is likely to go up or down in this quarterly period. The contract is legally binding. If you are holding a contract on the due date you have to make good on it by either receiving the apples (which you have already paid for) or handing over the apples (for which you have been paid).

Now if you have promised apples to sell, and sold them for $1, but you don't actually have any apples to sell when the contract is due, then you have to buy out your contract at the current price apples are selling. So yes, you would lose $99 ($100 - the dollar originally received).

That being said, nobody knows what is in the DNF contract, what obligations it specifies, what money was paid and to which company. All of that remains to be seen. The comparison with an apple does not work.

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by TechAnalyst

Indeed, but the source code in THIS case is part of the engine. Imagine a publisher who owns their own engine as advanced as 3Drealms engine here?

Youd see 500 games published on the engine :P theyd create stories and games based off new stories

Yes its corporate america

Take Two is a business, what makes more money? Making a new game every year or one every 13 years?

I didn't expect Duke to come out this year or the next, so maybe 15 years of waiting would of been the right guess.

[Jiminator]

if larabee comes out and it is able to do decent raytracing then you could expect to add another 5 years as they change the engine and rewrite the game from scratch...

[slapdaddy06]

Ouch they want the source code as well....wow just wow. Sounds like they're going after that game with everything they can..

I think TT just saw an opportunity to screw over 3DR and they're taking it. Given the long production and whatever else, they have a suit against them but suing someone and winning that suit are two different things. Hopefully this will get the game in our hands faster but I wouldn't like to see 3DR go under for something like this...just sad

[Ras]

Originally Posted by JobivanHiob

The Judge is called Gammaman?

Sounds like a Mega Man boss. If you beat him, you can use his powers to shed light on legal briefs.

[Mr.Deviance]

Originally Posted by Ras

Sounds like a Mega Man boss. If you beat him, you can use his powers to shed light on legal briefs.

Sounds more like a function on your monitor!
If you beat him, you can use his powers to shed light on your dark monitor image!

[Lutzifer]

Originally Posted by slapdaddy06

Ouch they want the source code as well....wow just wow. Sounds like they're going after that game with everything they can..

think about it. They could play it then

[IwantMORE]

Wouldn't it be funny if the public gallery was full of people dressed as Duke

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by IwantMORE

Wouldn't it be funny if the public gallery was full of people dressed as Duke

That would be priceless, then if 3D Realms loses they will attack the judge and Take 2 people in a fury of nerd rage.

[Blue Lightning]

I thought Take Two was suing for 200 million?

T2 has tons of money and teams of lawyers. George has...lots of hours of WoW logged...

George, make a deal. Make it fast. Thats what business is all about...deals.

[Ragnarok]

Originally Posted by Tang Lung

I wish to announce that I am suing Take Two, for being big giant poopy heads. I will proceed asap, with my newely aquired lawer..Mr Jack Thompson. Wish me luck.

Jack thompson can't practice law anymore XD

[Spardanian]

I think Duke needs to kick Take 2's ass. Duke where are you?

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by Blue Lightning

I thought Take Two was suing for 200 million?

T2 has tons of money and teams of lawyers. George has...lots of hours of WoW logged...

George, make a deal. Make it fast. Thats what business is all about...deals.

They will settle outside of court, however if a company doesnt have the money to produce a product then they cant, now I didnt hear that 3DRealms SHUT down duke nukem forever, the company still runs, they could just take longer to make it :P postpone UNLESS this 2007 stuff states a delivery date

Corporations no longer care about the creators or devs, they just know they can make money by making a game slightly better than average

[Alhexx]

Originally Posted by Blue Lightning

I thought Take Two was suing for 200 million?

Where did you get this number from?

[TechAnalyst]

Originally Posted by Alhexx

Where did you get this number from?

I was wondering the same, seems like they are injunction which basically means they CANNOT work on or change the current state of a product

So, no work on the game as stated by take two, if anyone touches the game then 3drealms is breaking the injunction

Injunction doesnt always mean MONEY unless they can pove that money was used to develop the product

The law has so many twists, need to wait and see what happens

December 1999: Infogrames buys a majority stake in GT Interactive, eventually buying the company outright. DNF is slotted for a 2000 release

December 5, 2000: Publisher Infogrames sells the Duke Nukem rights to Take-Two Interactive. Take-Two subsidiary publisher Gathering of Developers is now lined up to publish DNF.

So GT paid for rights to 3drealms to publish the game, then THEY got bought out and then infrogames sold it for 12 million, so yeah 3drealms didnt see that money :P

This will come down to the original contract that was made with GT unless its been re-written :P but NO TAKE TWO DID NOT PAY 3DREALMS 12 MILLION FOR PUBLISHING RIGHTS THEY PAID INFROGAMES

[MrBlackCat]

Most of this is pointless until we are informed of the actual and complete agreement between Apogee/3D Realms and Take Two.
We don't know... why waste the energy of all this bitching, blaming, and so on?
The developers have been let go... the game can not be finished as intended realistically. It would take a YEAR for another developer to get up to speed on someone elses code/game/graphics set etc... then they might be able to start working with it. Then another year to finish? After some legal battle? It isn't likely going to happen. Unless the game is VERY close to being complete, it is gone. Three plus years from now is a long time for this to be released... even if.

I am just waiting to find out what George and Scott have to say. I am pretty certain they can't take a chance on talking with the legal situation coming on.

MrBlackCat

[conantheking]

Originally Posted by Tualmasok

"Take Two needs to STFU imo."

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I have to laugh at that. It sure did come back to bite him didn't it?

[Alexander]

I can't believe this! It's getting more and more insane!
F* Take 2! Sure... It's all about busyness... This is about taking advantage of someone who has been slaped in the face! Take away his pride why don't ya!
Besides, Take 2 used to ramble about some kind of release date, while everybody knew the original term "when it's done!".
Hell, George was right with his "T2 needs to STFU imo".
I don't know... All this stress about a lawsuit is not good at all. I hope Goerge is doing well. He sure as hell did not diserve this....
I smell a dying project here... I hope I'm wrong, but I have a very bad feeling...

[R-o-D]

So, Let me fill you all in (on my theory)

- 3dr goes to take 2 for money. ("we need 5 mil to finish this")
- take 2 says, no way... we're not dumping money into this sink hole. Matter of fact, if DNF isn't done by XX , we are going to sue you for our original investment.

- 3dr calculates its next move.

-3dr lays off all employees, and sleeps (knowing the ball is in Take 2's court now)

-Take 2 takes the bait, and sues 3dr for their 12 million dollar investement.

* Take 2 wins the case, and 3dr must pay back the 12 million (George and Scott pony up their own cash, or Apogee loans 3dr the money.)

* Take 2 no longer owns rights to publish.
* 3dr pushes DNF out the door, and says "STFU Take 2"
* DNF is game of the year.

REJOICE.

(Mind you, I don't know what the 2007 deal between 3dr and take 2 was)

If I'm onto something, please delete my post so dirty Take 2 doesn't see this.

[iceman57]

R-o-D is brilliant...

Just one question, what was previous DN3D income ?

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by R-o-D

So, Let me fill you all in (on my theory)

- 3dr goes to take 2 for money. ("we need 5 mil to finish this")
- take 2 says, no way... we're not dumping money into this sink hole. Matter of fact, if DNF isn't done by XX , we are going to sue you for our original investment.

- 3dr calculates its next move.

-3dr lays off all employees, and sleeps (knowing the ball is in Take 2's court now)

-Take 2 takes the bait, and sues 3dr for their 12 million dollar investement.

* Take 2 wins the case, and 3dr must pay back the 12 million (George and Scott pony up their own cash, or Apogee loans 3dr the money.)

* Take 2 no longer owns rights to publish.
* 3dr pushes DNF out the door, and says "STFU Take 2"
* DNF is game of the year.

REJOICE.

(Mind you, I don't know what the 2007 deal between 3dr and take 2 was)

If I'm onto something, please delete my post so dirty Take 2 doesn't see this.

So if they win the case they no longer have publishing rights?

[mysteryperfecta]

While being in the same boat as everyone else (i.e. not knowing anything, including GB/Scott's future plans), I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't have been wise to sell the Duke IP. If not to Take 2 (which made a lowball offer, it seems), then to someone.

In my opinion, this entire episode has done major damage to the brand. And litigation insures that not much is going to happen to rehabilitate its image for the forseeable future. If 3dr could somehow retain the rights to all past and presently-in-development Duke products, but sell the rights to all future Duke products, then DNF would still be in development by people who have jobs.

So maybe DNF revives a franchise 3dr no longer owns. So? Be proud of the brand you created, and move on. Remedy did. Create a new IP. Hire Radar Group to help.

[Blue Lightning]

From a member at Steam forums:

Originally Posted by Europhoria

No no, 6-7 years super-good, 12 years, super-duper-good. After 12 years you'd expect a light to shine out of the box when you open it.

Hahahah!

[peoplessi]

Maybe this is the cunning plan to delay DNF release?! It must be, 3D Realms can't release the game before the lawsuit is done and over.

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by Blue Lightning

From a member at Steam forums:



Hahahah!

or something like this:

http://icanhascheezburger.files.word...y_holy_cat.jpg

Use your imagination and replace the cat with DNF.


I bet i know what the defendants (3D realms) defence case is like, they'll only say "But we made Duke nukem 3D" and expect everything to fall in place.

[Airtraffic]

Originally Posted by R-o-D

So, Let me fill you all in (on my theory)

- 3dr goes to take 2 for money. ("we need 5 mil to finish this")
- take 2 says, no way... we're not dumping money into this sink hole. Matter of fact, if DNF isn't done by XX , we are going to sue you for our original investment.

- 3dr calculates its next move.

-3dr lays off all employees, and sleeps (knowing the ball is in Take 2's court now)

-Take 2 takes the bait, and sues 3dr for their 12 million dollar investement.

* Take 2 wins the case, and 3dr must pay back the 12 million (George and Scott pony up their own cash, or Apogee loans 3dr the money.)

* Take 2 no longer owns rights to publish.
* 3dr pushes DNF out the door, and says "STFU Take 2"
* DNF is game of the year.

REJOICE.

(Mind you, I don't know what the 2007 deal between 3dr and take 2 was)

If I'm onto something, please delete my post so dirty Take 2 doesn't see this.

Pretty sure Take 2 will claim it's a scam by 3DR to get out of their agreement and no judge will rule "just pay pack the original $12m"

This whole ordeal is about greed on both sides, since consoles came out gaming is 50 times more lucrative than when TT bought the rights.

[ZuljinRaynor]

How the **** is 3DR greedy?

[Ramen4ever]

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor

How the **** is 3DR greedy?

They kept the game to themselves!!!

*grumble grumble grumble*