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Old 11-05-2009, 10:53 PM   #441
MegaMustaine

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Re: Max Payne 3
Uh..... the last two could definitely be there. As a matter of fact, Max truly does have nothing to lose at this point. I would say just wait for more info, and perhaps try the game before making judgments. The comments people have about this game with the handful of screenshots we have and the little information we have been given is ridiculous. A Max Payne game doesn't have to be in NY for it to be a Max Payne game, and last I checked Max wasn't the sanest individual in the world so it is quite believable that he has let himself go, and changed since the last time we saw him.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:38 AM   #442
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Post Re: Max Payne 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen View Post
"The new enviroment doesnt look or feel like a Max Payne game. It lacks that signature Max Payn feel." What is that signature feel in your view?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawn_off View Post
Seems to me the original Max Payne's boxart nailed it.

New York. Fugitive undercover cop. Nothing to lose.

All three are absent here.
I think sawn_off pretty much got what im saying there. The enviroment and character changes may be realistic, they just dont feel like MAX PAYNE to me. It feels like something entirely different with the Max Payne name on it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaMustaine View Post
Uh..... the last two could definitely be there. As a matter of fact, Max truly does have nothing to lose at this point. I would say just wait for more info, and perhaps try the game before making judgments.
No. My mind is made up, and I will repeat myself like a broken record because its my right to do so. Sometimes all you need is a "little" information and a "few" screens to see where something is going, and that you just dont like it.

I dont care if its conceivable, I dont care if its believable, I dont care if its realistic... It doesnt feel right, and it bothers the piss out of me that they would change things so drastically.

Quote:
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A Max Payne game doesn't have to be in NY for it to be a Max Payne game
I think Max Payne has to be at the very least in a dark, gritty, noir-city enviroment. Chicago, New York, Seattle, Los Angeles...Etc. We already know based on where Rockstar has stated and shown us they're taking this, its not going to be like that, at all.
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:27 AM   #443
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Re: Max Payne 3
"I think Max Payne has to be at the very least in a dark, gritty, noir-city enviroment. Chicago, New York, Seattle, Los Angeles...Etc. We already know based on where Rockstar has stated and shown us they're taking this, its not going to be like that, at all."

Okay then you aren't limiting him to any specific city, so we are getting closer. What does "noir-city environment" mean though in practice?

FYI this is from the agreement between Take Two and Remedy/3D Realms when they bought the IP, from the non-compete clause(that expires in 2012):

Quote:
For purposes hereof, a "Competitive Product"
is any original third person perspective 3D simulated game based in a modern
(currently timed) urban city (e.g., Los Angeles, Tokyo, London, New York,
Chicago, Las Vegas) with a male main character in the role of a police officer
or ex-police officer.
(Source: http://www.secinfo.com/d12atd.31Rr.d.htm)
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:18 PM   #444
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Re: Max Payne 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen View Post
Okay then you aren't limiting him to any specific city, so we are getting closer. What does "noir-city environment" mean though in practice?
Well my answer to that would be akin to you asking me "Why do you like a cheese burger?" and my response being "Because its a cheese burger."

Max Payne 1 and 2 essentially define noir-city for me. The night/dark, dreary, often snow covered city enviroment. The run down apartments, the slums, the sewers, subway tunnels. The dampness, run down look. Thugs hiding in the shadows. The narration in that 1930's detective drama style, the comic pages depicting the city scape, and our character... That entire package basically. You remove an element, and its like being the jackass in UNO that knocks the stack over. It just falls apart.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:05 PM   #445
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Re: Max Payne 3
All of these elements will still probably be there. The city the game is set in has a dynamic range of environments just like any other city. There are high rises, and there are slums. I think the big thing throwing people off is that some of the screens that we have seen take place during the day. Well I'm sorry, but stuff happens during the day and Max doesn't have to be limited to a nigh time setting. I think when all is said and done, the naysayers will be surprised how the game turns out. R* will not put out a bad product, and they are well aware of what makes Max Payne, Max Payne.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:09 PM   #446
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Re: Max Payne 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commando Nukem View Post
Well my answer to that would be akin to you asking me "Why do you like a cheese burger?" and my response being "Because its a cheese burger."

Max Payne 1 and 2 essentially define noir-city for me. The night/dark, dreary, often snow covered city enviroment. The run down apartments, the slums, the sewers, subway tunnels. The dampness, run down look. Thugs hiding in the shadows. The narration in that 1930's detective drama style, the comic pages depicting the city scape, and our character... That entire package basically. You remove an element, and its like being the jackass in UNO that knocks the stack over. It just falls apart.
Indeed. The dark, dreary and depressing city background is what helped feed the emotion of the first two games (arguably the first a lot more than the second), but when you take away that vital part of the overall experience it makes it all seem stale.

I really don't care if he's fat and bald. Hell, stick him in a wheelchair if you want. But replacing a setting that's been burned into the series as a major staple and replacing it with something completely polar opposite kills a lot of the charm of the game.

It would be as if they made a sequel to John Carpenters "The Thing" and had it set in Hawaii.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:37 PM   #447
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Re: Max Payne 3
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It would be as if they made a sequel to John Carpenters "The Thing" and had it set in Hawaii.
With high-school teenagers as the cast.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:44 PM   #448
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Re: Max Payne 3
Exactly.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:49 PM   #449
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Re: Max Payne 3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Paulo

Take a look at Sao Paulo. The analogy you made was poor. It is nothing like moving The Thing from Antarctica to Hawaii. Sao Paulo is just like every other major city. It isn't like they are moving the game from NYC to Lincoln, Nebraska. They are moving it to another large and sprawling city landscape.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:55 PM   #450
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Re: Max Payne 3
You seem to be absolutely missing the point we're trying to make here.

If I had time I would make you a visual aid with poster board and crayons to get the idea across, however I need to go to work.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:00 PM   #451
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Re: Max Payne 3
Which is what? Sao Paulo can be as dark and dreary as any other place. It is all a matter of how Rockstar paints the picture. Last time I checked Rockstar doesn't paint happy pictures with sunshine and rainbows. You will get a gritty crime drama, with a noir atmosphere, comic cutscenes, and a man with nothing to lose.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:41 PM   #452
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Re: Max Payne 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaMustaine View Post
Which is what? Sao Paulo can be as dark and dreary as any other place. It is all a matter of how Rockstar paints the picture. Last time I checked Rockstar doesn't paint happy pictures with sunshine and rainbows. You will get a gritty crime drama, with a noir atmosphere, comic cutscenes, and a man with nothing to lose.
Yes, but from what preview screenshots we've seen from Rockstar, it's bright and colorful. Bright and colorful is NOT noir.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:08 PM   #453
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Re: Max Payne 3
The change in setting is a big strike against it. Huge.

But for me, my two biggest problems.... Sam Lake is not writing the story. James McCaffrey is not the voice of Max.
I'd have faith in Rockstar to be able to nail the gameplay... but without Sam writing the story, I'm very resistant to how well it's going to be handled.
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:05 PM   #454
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Re: Max Payne 3
This thread reminds me of the Bioshock 2 thread.
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:07 PM   #455
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Re: Max Payne 3
Little bit... in a way.
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Old 11-07-2009, 11:32 AM   #456
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Re: Max Payne 3
I know that personally, I'm wary of this game. Somewhat, it's the location- you take Max Payne into a city outside of America, and you totally screw with the conventions. It's the culture that makes American crime what it is, and Sao Paulo has it's own culture that shapes it's own crimes. One could say that "crime is crime", but it doesn't work for me.

It would be hard to get into the local. So far, I've found myself resisting the idea of Brazil. It's totally believable, make no mistake, but it'll be hard to carry American noir crime tropes and transpose them over the top of Brazilian culture. And if they don't make Brazil's culture a significant presence, I will be pissed. Because then, all they would have done is pick up Max Payne with awesome Bullet Dodging Action and put him in a new sandbox, without changing the tropes at all.

Although, I think it could work if Max keeps that cynical vibe, and then contrast it against Brazilian criminal culture. Are the Brazilians as hardassed and cynical as Max? Of course, but for different reasons. Crime is done for different reasons. Instead of changing the traditional noir tropes we've established so far in the games, if they keep them and use them to show how out of place Max is, that would be interesting. Like he's trying to deny the past by transplanting himself in a new culture, but it doesn't work.

But I'm not expecting it. I'm not expecting the new game developers to be as careful and creative as the original writers and developers. I'm expecting them to make a game that would draw a crowd to make money, and that's pretty much it.
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:25 PM   #457
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Re: Max Payne 3
We could even step back and not read so far into things, and just say Rockstar are ripping off a movie as always. In this case, Man on Fire.
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:15 PM   #458
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Re: Max Payne 3
Sure I mean why not? Vice City was pretty much Scarface.
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Old 11-08-2009, 02:29 PM   #459
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Re: Max Payne 3
its not the setting alone... max payne looks too much like sam fisher... Max payne shouldn't have lots of mussels or be bald...

he should have a small and narrow body which looks fragile... and he has guns and painkillers to overcome his physical weakness...

and too ******* change his voice... worst choise ever?
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:25 PM   #460
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Re: Max Payne 3
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Sure I mean why not? Vice City was pretty much Scarface.
Dey had BALSS. BALSS To rip me, Tony Montanna off. I have ko-kayn, you ffff****s.
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:26 PM   #461
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Re: Max Payne 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaMustaine View Post
Uh..... the last two could definitely be there. As a matter of fact, Max truly does have nothing to lose at this point. I would say just wait for more info, and perhaps try the game before making judgments. The comments people have about this game with the handful of screenshots we have and the little information we have been given is ridiculous. A Max Payne game doesn't have to be in NY for it to be a Max Payne game, and last I checked Max wasn't the sanest individual in the world so it is quite believable that he has let himself go, and changed since the last time we saw him.
The people who say "play before you judge" are usually the same people who are regretting that they bought the game after they played. I might not be open minded, but I know what I like and could like from the start and pauly does not like these cracke
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:03 PM   #462
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Re: Max Payne 3
I know what I like too, but with the little information we have about MP3 there is almost no conceivable way to know how it will turn out. Yeah Remedy isn't behind it, Sam Lake didn't write the story, James McCaffrey isn't returning to voice Max Payne, Max is a little older for wear, and yeah the game isn't set in NY. But until we see the vision R* is working towards, it is impossible to judge the game yet and the decisions R* has made. Yeah I guess you could say this doesn't feel like a way Max would go, but until you see how R* actually presents all of these things it is impossible to know how things will turn out. I have said it before, and I will say it again, R* doesn't put out shit, and they don't milk things. They take their time and put out quality games, and I don't see them screwing this up with a franchise they paid a lot of money for.
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:54 AM   #463
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Re: Max Payne 3
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Originally Posted by MegaMustaine View Post
I know what I like too, but with the little information we have about MP3 there is almost no conceivable way to know how it will turn out. Yeah Remedy isn't behind it, Sam Lake didn't write the story, James McCaffrey isn't returning to voice Max Payne, Max is a little older for wear, and yeah the game isn't set in NY.
Max is an old fat bald guy who looks closer to being in a biker gang than a noir detective. I thought one of the biggest appeals of the MP universe was the noir setup and graphical novel-style writing - not just any company taking the concept, totally changing it and forcing people to accept it for what it is.

It's Rockstar, so the game itself will probably be swell and fun and whatnot. But that doesn't mean it could be comparable to the first two in the best of sense.
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:36 PM   #464
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Re: Max Payne 3
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Originally Posted by John View Post
Max is an old fat bald guy who looks closer to being in a biker gang than a noir detective. I thought one of the biggest appeals of the MP universe was the noir setup and graphical novel-style writing - not just any company taking the concept, totally changing it and forcing people to accept it for what it is.

It's Rockstar, so the game itself will probably be swell and fun and whatnot. But that doesn't mean it could be comparable to the first two in the best of sense.
The noir and the setting in New york is what really got me into the Max payne series. This new game just looks and feels like a money grab exploiting the Max payne name.

It's something to ignore and pretend it never existed...like what AVP fans do with the movies.
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:02 PM   #465
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Re: Max Payne 3
Max payne 3 delayed again...
http://kotaku.com/5418372/take+two-d...or-bad-quarter
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:42 PM   #466
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Re: Max Payne 3
Was anyone really surprised by this?
How could we expect the game early next year when they haven't shown a single piece of in game footage/gameplay?

Honestly, I'll be surprised if this game makes a 2010 release.
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Old 12-03-2009, 05:39 PM   #467
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Re: Max Payne 3
I hope its max payne: extreme makeover happening at rockstar...

and in makeover I mean... back to basics of the max payne franchise...
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Old 12-03-2009, 05:44 PM   #468
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Re: Max Payne 3
Oh damn, I was hoping it was canceled.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:58 PM   #469
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Re: Max Payne 3
Well they're not making Grand Theft Auto 2010 so that'll hurt them right there.
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Old 12-04-2009, 01:37 PM   #470
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Re: Max Payne 3
I'm willing to give MP3 a chance. I'm skeptical, but I'm not going to jump at the chance to criticize a game I haven't even seen gameplay footage of yet. They may just pull something great off. But they may also produce a turd. Being Rockstar, I'd put my money on the former.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:54 PM   #471
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Re: Max Payne 3
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...they may also produce a turd.
You mean something like, say, Bully?
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Old 12-06-2009, 07:54 PM   #472
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Re: Max Payne 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaMustaine View Post
You will get a gritty crime drama, with a noir atmosphere, comic cutscenes, and a man with nothing to lose.
A more darker game, that's what Max Payne 3 can't be. If Max didn't have nothing to lose in the first game, imagine how he must feel now that he has lost his hair.... shame, shame...
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:25 PM   #473
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Re: Max Payne 3
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Originally Posted by sawn_off View Post
You mean something like, say, Bully?
Bully was a fine game.
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:21 AM   #474
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:59 PM   #475
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Re: Max Payne 3
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Originally Posted by MegaMustaine View Post
Who says a Max Payne 4 would have to be a sequel to 3? It could be a prequel.


how? he didn't go on killing sprees when he had a wife and baby. are we just going to live his daily life before then?

---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaMustaine View Post
I know what I like too, but with the little information we have about MP3 there is almost no conceivable way to know how it will turn out. Yeah Remedy isn't behind it, Sam Lake didn't write the story, James McCaffrey isn't returning to voice Max Payne, Max is a little older for wear, and yeah the game isn't set in NY. But until we see the vision R* is working towards, it is impossible to judge the game yet and the decisions R* has made. Yeah I guess you could say this doesn't feel like a way Max would go, but until you see how R* actually presents all of these things it is impossible to know how things will turn out. I have said it before, and I will say it again, R* doesn't put out shit, and they don't milk things. They take their time and put out quality games, and I don't see them screwing this up with a franchise they paid a lot of money for.
You are putting a lot of faith in this game. For instance "Yeah Remedy isn't behind it, Sam Lake didn't write the story, James McCaffrey isn't returning to voice Max Payne, Max is a little older for wear, and yeah the game isn't set in NY." so thats basically saying "Nothing from the old game is there but the name, but that doesn't mean it won't be max payne."

I am very skeptical. but of course will wait it out. I have personally never liked R* games, but that doesn't mean this is going to be garbage. I don't have as much faith as you. I think they have a lot working against them.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:41 PM   #476
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Re: Max Payne 3
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6246424...dlines;title;2

"The game's story just went through another total re-write earlier this month (the third that I am aware of in the past two years) and that [means] the team would have to have all of the content done by April or May to make that August release date,"

Interesting comment from the article. I don't know how you can have a total rewrite so far into development, but I'm not a developer either.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:50 PM   #477
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Re: Max Payne 3
The third re-write... Yeah, that really helps to boost faith in this.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:58 PM   #478
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Re: Max Payne 3
Yeah doesn't make much sense. So I'm guessing they're keeping the game assets but re-writing the story?
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:02 AM   #479
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Re: Max Payne 3
My guess would be that re-write is an exaggeration. It is probably a third revision of what was already there.
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:38 PM   #480
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Re: Max Payne 3
I think the Max Payne franchise is an example of how not to handle an IP.

IMHO, Max Payne should have been a one-off. End the game with the ending of Max Payne 1. He's killed the people responsible for his family's death and is content with the outcome.
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