Lunatic Fringe: How was that done?

soulmate · 03-27-2009, 05:34 PM

Hi there,
I just played the map lunatic fringe and again it made me wonder how it was done...for those who might not have noticed yet: you run around in a circle, but instead of 360 degress, the circle features 720 degrees! hard to explain, but just play thta map and you'll see.

so..how was that done? i couldn't figure it out, not even after opening the map in build...it just totally busts my common sense

Nimoy · 03-27-2009, 05:44 PM

Basically because of the limited nature of build, it lacks the notion of "reality", and the impossible is sometimes possible.

NightFright · 03-27-2009, 06:14 PM

"Tier Drops" is almost as crazy. Four sectors, all taking the same place. Without height differences or anything. And yet you can drop through holes and you get into other sectors. And "Spin Cyle" does this weird stuff to your rockets when firing on the conveyor belt. Some of the secret levels are just really, really weird.

cyborg · 03-27-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimoy

Basically because of the limited nature of build, it lacks the notion of "reality", and the impossible is sometimes possible.

Anything computable is possible in a game.

Basically it is no different to having any over overlapped area except they happen to be in the same vertical range. Build only cares about the connections between sectors - not their absolute positions in respect to each other.

Jiminator · 03-27-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulmate

Hi there,
I just played the map lunatic fringe and again it made me wonder how it was done...for those who might not have noticed yet: you run around in a circle, but instead of 360 degress, the circle features 720 degrees! hard to explain, but just play thta map and you'll see.

so..how was that done? i couldn't figure it out, not even after opening the map in build...it just totally busts my common sense

sounds like a mobius strip...

SwissCM · 03-27-2009, 11:35 PM

Here's a DM map I made recently that exploits a bunch of build quirks. It doesn't play amazingly great but whatever.

http://home.spin.net.au/swisscm/mindfrack.zip

hightreason · 03-28-2009, 05:25 AM

It's because build is really a 2.5D engine opposed to 3D, as you might know all the levels are mapped out on a grid in 2D, so if you draw a sector (a room for example) over another one (so they are in the same place) it will cause this to happen, as long as you cant see into both of them at the same time.

BuddhaMaster · 03-28-2009, 08:36 AM

i just try to explain it. I dont know if its the same in duke 3d, but the same stuff was possible in Unreal engine.. i think basically its the same.

Imagine invisible portals every 180° that render another room to where the portal is, instead of a wall. You could imagine it as window to look into another room or mirror that extends the room.

Just in case..

soulmate · 03-28-2009, 10:48 AM

I think I'm starting to get it...still a wicked thing =)

Nimoy · 03-28-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyborg

Anything computable is possible in a game.

Yeah, but in terms of reality this is impossible.

Mikko Sandt · 03-28-2009, 12:29 PM

Btw, anyone got any idea what Carmack meant when he said about the Build engine that it was "held together with bubble gum"?

cyborg · 03-28-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimoy

Yeah, but in terms of reality this is impossible.

In terms of reality a lot of things are impossible - so that doesn't really narrow it down.

Malgon · 03-28-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightFright

"Tier Drops" is almost as crazy. Four sectors, all taking the same place. Without height differences or anything. And yet you can drop through holes and you get into other sectors. And "Spin Cyle" does this weird stuff to your rockets when firing on the conveyor belt. Some of the secret levels are just really, really weird.

Tier Drops was pretty freaky.

XTHX2 · 03-30-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikko Sandt

Btw, anyone got any idea what Carmack meant when he said about the Build engine that it was "held together with bubble gum"?

I didn't even know he said that... I would also want to know what that means...

Plagman · 03-30-2009, 02:07 PM

Glance at the source code for BUILD and Duke3D, then look at the Quake source. Then you'll understand what he meant.

noctrun · 04-01-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XTHX2

I didn't even know he said that... I would also want to know what that means...

I guess the bubblegum comment was about the kind of technology used (and what Carmack was doing himself when Duke3D/Build hit the market) and not whenever it was good for what it was. Just look at some of Carmacks comments about his own older technology. Carmack also made other comments where he praised Ken Silverman as one of the "most talented" engine developers with "extremely impressive" work.

Sang · 04-01-2009, 11:13 AM

Carmack obviously found out where Duke's bubblegum really went.

In any case I never knew Lunatic Fringe was 2 circles in one! Maybe that's why I always got stuck because I always stayed in the same circle, I guess.

03-27-2009, 05:34 PM	#1
soulmate	Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? Hi there, I just played the map lunatic fringe and again it made me wonder how it was done...for those who might not have noticed yet: you run around in a circle, but instead of 360 degress, the circle features 720 degrees! hard to explain, but just play thta map and you'll see. so..how was that done? i couldn't figure it out, not even after opening the map in build...it just totally busts my common sense __________________ Nobody steals our chicks and lives !

03-27-2009, 05:44 PM	#2
Nimoy	Re: Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? Basically because of the limited nature of build, it lacks the notion of "reality", and the impossible is sometimes possible. __________________ The feeling is definitely there. It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits. We dont just want to survive, we want to succeed. - President of the USA, "They Live"

03-27-2009, 06:14 PM	#3
NightFright	Re: Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? "Tier Drops" is almost as crazy. Four sectors, all taking the same place. Without height differences or anything. And yet you can drop through holes and you get into other sectors. And "Spin Cyle" does this weird stuff to your rockets when firing on the conveyor belt. Some of the secret levels are just really, really weird. __________________ Duke3D HRP Update Pack Duke3D HRP Wiki To-Do List

03-27-2009, 11:35 PM	#6
SwissCM	Re: Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? Here's a DM map I made recently that exploits a bunch of build quirks. It doesn't play amazingly great but whatever. http://home.spin.net.au/swisscm/mindfrack.zip

03-28-2009, 05:25 AM	#7
hightreason	Re: Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? It's because build is really a 2.5D engine opposed to 3D, as you might know all the levels are mapped out on a grid in 2D, so if you draw a sector (a room for example) over another one (so they are in the same place) it will cause this to happen, as long as you cant see into both of them at the same time. __________________ High Treason (My Website) (Second Site) (My YouTube) Punk's not dead - and nor is Duke! Ever get the feeling you are being ignored?

03-28-2009, 08:36 AM	#8
BuddhaMaster	Re: Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? i just try to explain it. I dont know if its the same in duke 3d, but the same stuff was possible in Unreal engine.. i think basically its the same. Imagine invisible portals every 180° that render another room to where the portal is, instead of a wall. You could imagine it as window to look into another room or mirror that extends the room. Just in case..

03-28-2009, 10:48 AM	#9
soulmate	Re: Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? I think I'm starting to get it...still a wicked thing =) __________________ Nobody steals our chicks and lives !

03-28-2009, 12:29 PM	#11
Mikko Sandt	Re: Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? Btw, anyone got any idea what Carmack meant when he said about the Build engine that it was "held together with bubble gum"? __________________ http://www.planetduke.com/msdn/ The West is not simply better than non-Western cultures, it is vastly, fundamentally better. Hellenic culture is the only truly human civilization, the only one for which human reason, not animal stultification, is the ideal. –Greg Swann http://m-sandt.blogspot.com

03-30-2009, 02:07 PM	#15
Plagman	Re: Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? Glance at the source code for BUILD and Duke3D, then look at the Quake source. Then you'll understand what he meant. __________________ EDuke32 - "The corrupt doctrine of terror has begun."

04-01-2009, 11:13 AM	#17
Sang	Re: Lunatic Fringe: How was that done? Carmack obviously found out where Duke's bubblegum really went. In any case I never knew Lunatic Fringe was 2 circles in one! Maybe that's why I always got stuck because I always stayed in the same circle, I guess. __________________ traB pu kcip